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Re: Catherine St Clair?

Dear Niven

I thought that the marriage of  Hugues de Payen and Catherine St Clair was
well established. In 1128 when Hugues de Payen visited Scotland he and the
Norman Catherine St Clair sur Elle had been married over 18 years.They were
entertained by their distant cousin at Roslyn.  Some time ago (1998, I
think)  I remember John Duguid looking for Catherine.  Wallace Murphy has
done a bit of work on this. I never understood how in light of this marriage
Hugues de Payen and Geoffrol de St. Omer and  17 other French knights, took
vows of chastity in 1119. In 1128  Balentrodach was created from a bequest
by David 1 and given to the Templars at the Baron of Roslyn request.

They maybe a confusion with  Hugues V Vicomte de Chateaudun (son of Hugues
IV and Marguerite de St Calais). Hugues V who was married to a de Chappes
woman (first name unknown).   He died in 1191, and was survived by 3

Maybe this helps (de) Chappes is a Locative Surname.

Chappes is a town of 980 population in Department 63. the Puy-de-Dôme.  The
battle of Gergovie where Vercingétorix defeated Julius Cesar and preserved
the Celtic civilisation and the Arvern people  The region was later occupied
by Romans.

In the Middle Ages the feudal potentates were continuously fighting, until
the royal power brought some peace. This period is characterised by the
affirmation of the Christian church and the building of Roman churches. The
pillages, the epidemics and the starvation characterising the 100-year war
forced the villages to build fortifications in order to protect themselves.
Then, the Puy-de-Dôme County became the property of the Duke of Berry who
ruined it by the upkeep of his beautiful residences he had in Riom and
Nonette and his personal excesses.

During the 15th century many tanneries, stationery and cutlery trades
established in the Livradois-Forez. During such a favourable period appeared
the first Renaissance châteaux.

During the 16th century, the religious wars provoke serious damages and the
region was definitively incorporated into the Crown of France in 1609.
Richelieu ordered the demolition of the last fortresses.

"In the land of Count Thibaut of Champagne took the cross Garnier, Bishop of
Troyes, Count Walter of Brienne, Geoffry of Joinville*, who was seneschal of
the land, Robert his brother, Walter of Vignory, Walter of Montbéliard,
Eustace of Conflans, Guy of Plessis his brother, Henry of Arzilliéres, Oger
of Saint-Chéron, Villain of Neuilly, Geoffry of Villhardouin, Marshal of
Champagne, Geoffry his nephew, William of Nully, Walter of Fuligny, Everard
of Montigny, Manasses of l'Isle, Macaire of Sainte-Menehould, Miles the
Brabant, Guy of Chappes, Clerembaud his nephew, Renaud of Dampierre, John
Foisnous, and many other right worthy men whom this book does not here
mention by name"
wrote  Geoffrey de Villehardouin [b.c.1160-d.c.1213]: in his book
Memoirs or Chronicle of The Fourth Crusade and The Conquest of

Other de Chappes mentioned in various early references around Templar times

Ascelin n.1040 -
Clérambeau Ier n.1090 -
Gautier n.1065 -
Odeline n.1120 -

 Ascelin DE CHAPPES est né environ 1040. Il est décédé après 1081. Ascelin a
épousé Gillette DAME DE CHAPPES.

 Gillette DAME DE CHAPPES est née environ 1045. Elle est décédée environ
1085, et a été enterrée environ 1085 à 10380 Plancy l'Abbaye (prieuré).

 Gautier DE CHAPPES est né environ 1065. Il est décédé en 1114. Gautier a
épousé Flandine DAME DE CHAPPES.

 Flandine DAME DE CHAPPES est née environ 1070. Elle est décédée en 1121.


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