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Re: Prince & Jarl

Sorry that I am so slow to respond to these messages.  My server was down
earlier this week and I have had an explosion of messages to go through.
Now it is down again and my answers are piling up too.  All of this
discussion seems so trite considering what is happening in Sydney.
Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2002 2:42 AM
Subject: Re: Prince & Jarl

> Henry was not the Baron of Rosslyn. The Barony was not created until 1666
> Charles II Henry was Lord of Rosslyn.  Manorial title. from Sinclair de la

This is news to me.   I have a chart prepared for Niven by a researcher he
trusted and admired.  It shows beginning with William the Seemly becoming
Baron for "life rent" in 1057.

I was sent some pages from an unknown history or peerage pages.  pg. 564:
"Sir William Sinclair.....was a favorite with King Alexander III, who
granted him a charter of baxter lands of Innerleith on 8 April 1280, and on
the resignation of Henry of Roskelyn, a charter of the lands and barony of
Roslin on 14 Sept. 1280."

His son, Henry "supported Bruce, and fought against the English at
Bannockburn.  In recognition of his services he had a charter from King
Robert on 21 Oct. 1214 of all His Majesty's lands on the Muir of Pentland in
free warren,....He was one of the Barons of Scotland who signed the letter
date 4 April 1320 to Pope John XXII, ....He is mentioned as having forfeited
one-third of the barony of Roslin on 13 Oct 1335"
(here we have a concrete date concerning the Barony)

Burke's Peerage
pg CA  second column
"Sir William Sinclair of Roslin, of the territorial Barony of which he was
granted a charter by Alexander II 14 Sept 1280 on the resignation of Henry
de Rosklyn"
(now we can't blame this information on Father Hay, can we?)

Rosslyn Chapel by The Earl of Rosslyn pg 2
"Rosslyn Chapel...was founded in 1446 by Sir William St. Clair, third and
last St. Clair Prince of Orkney."   (that should stir up things)
pg. 3.  "Sir William's son and successor to the barony of Rosslyn, SIr
Oliver St. Clair...."
pg. 37  excerpt from 'The Lay of the Last Minstrel'  by Sir Walter Scott
"Where Roslin's chiefs uncoffin'd lie, Each Baron, for a sable shroud...."
and "There are twenty of Roslin's barons bold lie buried within that proud
--even allowing for poetic license, 20 barons should take us back way before
1666 when this incident happened in the early days of the St. Clairs.

pg. 41 speaking of Malcolm Canmore depending upon barons like William St.
Clair.  (I know this is all based on Father Hay's research)  Then "The
barony of Rosslyn passed from father to son through several generations" .

Isn't it true that when there was a change in the monarchy, the nobility
"resigned" their titles and/or holdings and were reinstated by the new king?
Surely some of these transactions have been lost over the years and just
because they have not been found does not mean the previous generation
failed to hold the title?   I know it doesn't prove they did but it does
leave the door ajar.

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