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Re: Prince & Jarl

Yes, nit picking was hastily and with much frustration said unwisely.

   Somehow I feel betrayed by present day authors, with credentials in
history, access to the European documents, and years of research that have
authoritatively repeated these details on the St. Clairs as if they were
proven and verifiable facts.   Hardly do you see a "perhaps, maybe,
possibly, could be, etc." in their writings.

     I have a long list of just such questionable "facts" concerning Henry
and William the Seemly that I have begged repeatedly for the sources but
have been ignored.

I see that St. Clair of Isles pg 97 says that it was Henry's brother John
was married (Father Hays source)  "to Ingeberg, natural daughter of
Waldemar, King of Denmark, by Jova Little, who was a daughter of Sir John
Little, Commissioner of Rugen."  Did Roland St. Clair misquote Father Hays
when he said John St. Clair instead of Henry?  Or did Andrew Sinclair pg.
121 "The Sword and the Grail" misquote Hays  when he wrote "Sir Henry St.
Clair was also said to have concluded a marriage to a daughter of King
Magnus, Princess Florentia: but if he did, she died young, probably before
the age of puberty, and she bore no children."

I see that Frederick Pohl pg 30 quotes Father Hay

"A marriage was concluded" in Copenhagen between Henry and Florentia,
princess of Denmark, daughter of King Magnus, and a sister to King Haakon".
Jacob Van Bassan who has a reputation for genealogical inaccuracy (having
been called  "a pure fabulist") doubts this marriage.  Following Van Bassan,
Douglas's Peerage of Scotland says:  "The fable of his having married
Florentia is exploded."  Father Hay, however, was in a position to know the
   It is probable that there was such a marriage.  Henry's family would have
sought such a marriage, and it would not have been seeking too hight.  The
marriage was possible within surviving records of the royal genealogies, but
"daughter" of King Magnus may have meant granddaughter or
great-granddaughter.*  Magnus Ericsson, King of Sweden 1350-1359, had a
daughter who died young, and King Waldemar and Helwig, daughter of King
Magnus, had two daughters who died young.  Those who were married in infancy
or childhood were not bedded until puberty."

All of above from Pohl plus this Note: *The Royal Archives of Sweden have no
records of a Florentia.  The Royal Archives of Denmark say that "a tradition
attributes three sisters to King Haakon VI, but as to their names or lives
nothing reliable seems to be known."

--We know that these Nobles and kings did have illegimate children.  I don't
know that anything can be proved one way or the other just because records
do not exist.   Records do not exist of my g.g.g. grandfather, but I know he

But this takes us back to the title of Duke of Oldenburg.  Where did that
story creep in?  I don't think I am finding it in Sword and the Grail, St.
Clairs of the Isles or Pohl (maybe I should look harder ), but Pete Cummings
wrote about it as fact.

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