Re: Odenburg.

["John S. Quarterman" <jsq@quarterman.org>]

>Dear John
>
>
>The status of the Imperial Estate (Reichsstandschaft) was attached to the
>Imperial immediate territories, which paid the imperial taxes through one of
>10 Imperial Circles (Reichskreise) and gave their owners the right to vote
>in the Imperial Assembly/the Imperial Diet (Reichstag).
>
>In the Empire only the Roman Emperors granted the Imperial fiefs and
>titles.

In that Empire the Emperors claimed sole rights to many things, but often
there were hereditary or de facto rights that trumped them.  We won't get
into their contretemps with the Pope....

>The Holy Roman Empire  embraced most of central Europe and Italy
>under the rule of the German kings from 962 to 1806. It was considered to be
>a restoration and continuation of the ancient Roman Empire, although in fact
>it had little in common with its predecessor.

And meanwhile a real continuation of the Roman Empire still existed,
based at Constantinople.

>(the Imperial Post Office was considered as an Imperial fief).

And it was run by the Thurn und Taxis family,

 http://www.phonebookoftheworld.com/thurnandtaxis.htm

who are an interesting example of a merchant family that became
successively baron, count, and then prince (Fuerst).
Note no intervening stages of duke or marquis or the like.

This family is sufficiently wealthy and aristocratic that the royal
family of Portugal married into it, and of course they have a Stewart
claim, as well.

(A family mythology has also accreted around them.  We Await Silent
Tristero's Empire.)

>Wines and Swartz do agree with you that the rank was ancient. Most other
>sources claim the 1474 date.  Stokvis claims a 1510 date.  The 1181 date I
>have not seen anywhere but your source.

That source cited its sources, so presumably the 1181 date is in there
somewhere.  The point nonetheless remains that there are varying claims
for when the Counts of Oldenburg were considered princes, and more than
one source claims it was more ancient than the 14th century time frame
of direct interest.

>I just blew my late New Year's resolution.  Oh well  we all have our limits!

Tch tch.

>Sinclair

John S. Quarterman <jsq@quarterman.org>
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