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Dear John

The status of the Imperial Estate (Reichsstandschaft) was attached to the
Imperial immediate territories, which paid the imperial taxes through one of
10 Imperial Circles (Reichskreise) and gave their owners the right to vote
in the Imperial Assembly/the Imperial Diet (Reichstag).

In the Empire only the Roman Emperors granted the Imperial fiefs and
titles.The Holy Roman Empire  embraced most of central Europe and Italy
under the rule of the German kings from 962 to 1806. It was considered to be
a restoration and continuation of the ancient Roman Empire, although in fact
it had little in common with its predecessor. Charlemagne revived the name
Roman Empire. His Roman Empire lasted from 800 to 925. In 962, Otto I of
Germany and Pope John XII cooperated in a second revival. Threatened in his
possession of the Papal States by Berengar II, king of Italy, John pleaded
with Otto to come to his aid. Otto came and the pope solemnly crowned him
Emperor of the Romans as a reward. From this time, the German kings claimed
the right to rule the empire. Which was neither Holy Roman or an Empire.

The Holy Roman Empire (the word "Holy" was added during the 12th century)
reflected two important medieval values: the unity of all Christians, or at
least all Western Christians, in a single state as the civil counterpart to
the One Holy Catholic Church; and a concept of hierarchical political
organization that called for one ultimate head over all existing states. In
practice, the empire never fully conformed to either ideal. France and
England never acknowledged any real subordination to the emperor, although
they recognized a vague supremacy in him. Scotland ignored the emperor The
Imperial fiefs, in most cases, were the Imperial immediate territories, but
not always (the Imperial Post Office was considered as an Imperial fief).
The Imperial fiefs could be given to both ecclesiastical and secular
persons. As a rule, the secular persons were able to make the Imperial fiefs
hereditary in their families.

There were two major types of a inheritance of feudal territories in the
Empire. The type, that dictated that a senior child inherited a territory
indivisible, was called Primogeniture. According to this type of inheritance
there was one owner of the feudal territory, and only this person bore a
title associated with it. In the Low Countries, Lorraine and neighboring
lands Primogeniture existed from the Middle Ages. In these lands daughters
of a previous owner of a feudal territory could take precedence over their
uncles, and many feudal territories had passed through the female line. But
in the most parts of the Empire a feudal territory could be inherited by
female relatives only if the last male representative of the family had died
( the Salic Law).

Salic Law might have given Henry the title Prince rank from his first wife,
a Norwegian. I have been unable to tie the title to Norway much less

Wines and Swartz do agree with you that the rank was ancient. Most other
sources claim the 1474 date.  Stokvis claims a 1510 date.  The 1181 date I
have not seen anywhere but your source.

I just blew my late New Year's resolution.  Oh well  we all have our limits!


 sources available at Evereux are;
Barraclough, Geoffrey, The Origins of Modern Germany, 2d rev. ed. (1947;
repr. 1984)
J.S.Pütter Historical Development of the Present Political Constitution of
the Germanic Empire
A.F.Büsching Erdbeschreibung, Vol 5-9 (1789-1792).
C.W.Lancizolle Uebersicht der deutschen Reichsstandschafts
und Territorial-Verhältnisse vor dem französischen Revolutionskriege (1830).
A.M.H.J.Stokvis Manuel d'Histoire, de Genealogie et de Chronologie ...
(reprint 1966)
A.Himly Histoire de la Formation Territoriale des Etats de l'Europe Centrale
Georg Friedrich von Martens Recueil des Principaux Traites (1791-1807)
Julius Ficker Vom Reichsfürstenstande (1861, reprint)
H.F. Schwarz The Imperial Privy Council in the 17th Century (1943)
R.A.Wines The Franconian Reichskreis and the Holy Roman Empire...
PhD Dissertation, Columbia University, NY, NY, USA (1961)
J.E. d'Arenberg The Lesser Princes of the Holy Roman Empire in the
Napoleonic Era
Dissertation, Columbia University, Washington, DC, USA (1950)
E.Kraehe Metternich's German Policy (1963,1983)
E.Wallner Die kreissässigen Reichsterritorien (1929)
E. Hölzle Der deutsche Südwesten am Ende des alten Reiches (1938)
M.Huberty, A.Giraud, F. & B.Magdelaine L'Allemagne Dynastique (1976-)
W.Rentzmann Numismatisches Legenden-Lexicon ... (1864, reprint)
Peter H. Wilson The Holy Roman Empire 1495-1806 (1999)
Steffen Schlinker Fürstenamt und Rezeption (1999)

----- Original Message -----
From: "John S. Quarterman" <jsq@quarterman.org>
To: <sinclair@quarterman.org>
Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2002 5:35 AM
Subject: Re: Prince & Jarl

> >John wrote " As previously mentioned, the Counts of Oldenburg were
> >of the Holy Roman Empire, and the County of Oldenburg was a possession of
> >the  Dukes of Oldenburg, so if Henry was the Duke of Oldenburg, he was a
> >Prince, which would resolve that discussion. "

[ Excess quotations omitted. ]

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