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Re: St. Margaret

Dear Neil,

    Maybe you intended to way that William the Seemly accompanied St.
Margaret  back from Hungary?   I  don't mean to jump on to a slip of the
finger, we all do it.   Here is some new information on the subject that
people might not know yet.

   William the Seemly was born around 1028 in Normandy and was in England
around 1057.  Margaret was born in Hungary in 1046.  It was her father and
uncle (sons of King Edmund Ironsides) that were forced out of England as
tiny babies when Knute conquered England and married Queen Emma, sister of
our Mauger, Count of Mortain & Corbeil, in 1017.
   So William the Seemly didn't escort her to Hungary, since she wasn't born
yet, but it is quite possible he went with the delegation sent by Edward the
Confessor (s/o Emma) in Sept. 1057 as the king's representative and became
the cupbearer of Edward the Exile.  It was hoped that Edward the Exile would
become the heir to Edward the Confessor who was childless but  Ed the Exile
died as he reached England (very suspicious).   William the Seemly's father,
Walderne, was the cousin of Edward the Confessor.
   Margaret was of no political interest and would have been very
unimportant in the whole picture at that time as she was firmly dedicated to
the church and definitely planned never to marry.  It doesn't make sense
that this non-person would be entrusted with a piece of the Holy Rood.  More
likely (if it ever happened) it would have been given to her father, Edward
the Exile, by his friend King Andrew of Hungary whom Edward and his brother
had helped to regain his throne in Hungary.  Also because of the threat of
Duke William of Normandy who possessed a Holy relic from the Pope, it would
make sense to give  an important relic such as the Holy Rood to Edward the
Exile to provide him with Holy power as King of England.
20 years passed before she married Malcolm Canmore and then it was against
her will.  King Malcolm threatened the life of her brother, Edgar the
Athling, and finally she gave in.  (Anglo-Saxon Chronicles) Women were
usually wed long before the age of 24 in those days especially a woman with
her lineage.  She was one of the few descendants of the Saxon line of
monarchs.  Marrying her would have been a strategically good political move
but it is quite evident that such suitors were kept away because of her
religious commitment.  So it took real force from King Malcolm to change her
   I993 was the 900th anniversary of the death of Saint Margaret Queen of
Scotland.  At least two people researched and published books about her
life.  No where in either of these books is there a mention of the Holy Rood
being brought with her from Hungary.  Such a fact would not have been
overlooked.   I have corresponded with another  English researcher on
Margaret's history who says, " The other serious problem with your legend is
that Margaret, a girl of about ten in 1057, would hardly have had a Norman
knight as cupbearer.  Nor is there anything established about a Holy Rood
brought by Margaret from Hungary.  If your William was indeed Margaret's
cupbearer then he must have been appointed upon her marriage to Malcolm
Canmore in Scotland."
Hope this helps,

----- Original Message -----
From: Rory Sinclair <rory.sinclair@accglobal.net>
To: <sinclair@matrix.net>
Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2000 10:13 AM
Subject: Re: Sinclair Dates & Appreciation

> Dear Neil:
> I was leaving the field open to Niven but as he seems otherwise occupied,
> will repeat what I got from him but have seen from no other source (not
> I have specifically looked).  The engrailed cross, at least in sable
> has been with the Sinclairs a long time.  Niven told me, and I hope I
> remember correctly, that we Sinclairs obtained  the "ragged cross" after
> William "The Seemly" St. Clair accompanied St. Margaret (later wife of
> Malcolm Canmore) to Hungary from which she returned with a piece of the
> cross which was later enshrined in "Holyrood" (Rood = tree in old english,
> version of which was the language spoken in Lowland Scotland  at the time)
> to Hungary circa 1057.
> It may be true that a "croix pattee" or templar cross can be made by
> the very centre of an egrailed cross up to the first 'scallop' away from
> whole but if the above be true re: William the Seemly,  then the croix
> pattee is an anachronism insofar as the Crusades and hence the Templars
> appx. 50 years later.
> I'd like to get to the bottom of this myself.
> Aye,
> Rory
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Neil Sinclair/Peggy Rintoul <rinsin@globalserve.net>
> To: sinclair@matrix.net <sinclair@matrix.net>
> Date: Wednesday, June 07, 2000 9:44 AM
> Subject: Re: Sinclair Dates & Appreciation
> >Dear John;
> >Everyday I think of you, and in a most positive way to be sure. When you
> >share the important dates in history we are connected this day with all
> >those days that have gone before, linking the past and present in a
> >contextual way. Today I note the anniversary of Robert Bruces death, so
> >intimately tied into the family heritage. I applaud you for again quietly
> >and persistently keeping the shared interests moving forward in a
> >direction. Now as for the granting of the Sinclair shield and heraldic
> >symbols ...anyone???
> >Neil Sinclair
> >Toronto/PEI/Forever Argyll
> >.
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "John S. Quarterman" <jsq@matrix.net>
> >To: <sinclair@matrix.net>
> >Sent: 7 June, 2000 3:19 AM
> >Subject: Sinclair Dates
> >
> >
> >>
> >>    [1]Sinclair Dates:  June 7.
> >>    In 1329: Robert I the Bruce d., King of Scots dies.
> >>    [2]Tomorrow:  June 8.
> >>    In 1376: Edward III d.,
> >>    [3]King of England dies.
> >>    In 1329: David II, King of Scots
> >>    In 1042: Harthacnut end,
> >>    [4]King of England ends reign
> >>    In 793: Vikings sack Lindisfarne, Beginning of the Viking Age.
> >>
> >> References
> >>
> >>    1. http://www.mids.org/sinclair/timeline.html
> >>    2. http://www.mids.org/sinclair/timeline.html
> >>    3. http://www.angelfire.com/de/BobSanders/TIME1.html
> >>    4. http://www.angelfire.com/de/BobSanders/TIME1.html
> >> [ This is the Sinclair family discussion list, sinclair@mids.org
> >> [ To get off or on the list, see http://www.mids.org/sinclair/list.html
> >>
> >
> >[ This is the Sinclair family discussion list, sinclair@mids.org
> >[ To get off or on the list, see http://www.mids.org/sinclair/list.html
> >
> [ This is the Sinclair family discussion list, sinclair@mids.org
> [ To get off or on the list, see http://www.mids.org/sinclair/list.html

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