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Re: Sinclair Genealogy



Jean,

See my answer to you OFF list... There is really no point in subjecting 
everyone to this petty nonsense.

Margaret

At 08:46 PM 19/09/99 -0700, you wrote:
>As my father said, ask enough questions and you will eventually find the
>truth.
>
>If you would like to come to my house and see the literally thousands of
>letters to and from people I have helped trace their lines "at NO COST"
>prior to my first publication, feel free to make an appointment.
>Unfortunately, in an effort to make the public records available to everyone
>the answer was to get them into print.  As I am not a wealthy woman (in fact
>I am a poor woman at the moment), the only way I can afford the cost of
>printing and binding is to sell the product as cheaply as possible and still
>make enough to print the nest one.  IRS has very strict guidelines dividing
>a business from a hobby, and yes, I have gone through an audit since my
>first publication and thanks to legal research done before the first
>publication my records were and are,  perfect.
>
>I am happy that Gary mentioned the Clan Sinclair library.  As this site has
>never mentioned exactly who they were working for - albeit paid or unpaid -
>that has been and still is my original  question.  WHEN that library (Clan
>Sinclair) is a reality there will be a CD of all my archives provided to it
>at no cost.  Until that time they will remain in the individual branches
>where they belong.
>
>I raised the question and it still has not been answered.  Considering the
>response to what I consider a perfectly legitimate concern I guess I have
>struck a number of nerves.
>
>A point to remember - I was invited to join this site.  I am totally
>ignorant of Scottish history and have thoroughly enjoyed reading the
>material from a number of submitters on the early history  and I shall
>continue to enjoy those.  I suggest we now change the subject; the horse is
>dead..
>Jean Grigsby
>
>Perhaps you have not taken a genealogical class or been in direct contact
>with the copyright office.  VERY FEW family records are public records.
>Birth records were very rare before 1900 and the same is true with death
>records.  The census records do not ensure that all of the children listed
>belong to that family.  These are only three instances of genealogical
>records that are not public record.  I could continue with marriages not
>recorded except in Family Bibles, etc.
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: milamba <milamba@milamba.com>
>To: <sinclair@mids.org>
>Sent: Sunday, September 19, 1999 4:02 PM
>Subject: Re: Sinclair Genealogy
>
>
> >Let me state from the outset that the Database that Lena is building and
> >that I am assisting with is NOT for the general public.  Those people who
> >are willing to contribute will be adding to the store of knowledge that is
> >already maintained on the Sinclair's.  The only people who will ever have
> >access to it are those who can prove that they are of Sinclair descent or
> >whom have legitimate reasons for researching the Sinclair's.  Even then,
> >private information will remain just that, PRIVATE, and inquires regarding
> >living persons will be directed to the appropriate people.
> >
> >There is NO difference between this database and the books currently
> >available through yourself, Jean, or through any other body, except that
> >there is no fee changing hands when people access this database, and the
> >fact that it is in electronic format rather than printed format.  The only
> >people whom it's costing money are Lena and myself when we pay for access
> >to various other sources to obtain information.
> >
> >Genealogical information is not private. It is public domain
> >information.  The only thing that becomes copyrightable information is the
> >format that the person chooses to put it in, or the design of the database,
> >or the search engine for finding it etc.  The actual information can never
> >be copyrighted.
> >
> >If you wish to continue with your divisive actions with regard to the
> >database, Jean, then I would suggest that you also withdraw all the books
> >you have for sale that contain genealogical information and make them
> >FREELY available to those who can prove descent from a particular
> >line.  And no, you do not have to recoup your costs... neither Lena nor I
> >will be doing that, so why should you?
> >
> >It is a great shame that the Sinclair's and their descendents are so often
> >hot-tempered.  It may have made us what we are but it also means that we
> >are highly territorial - might I suggest that we all regard our
> >genealogical research as a gift to our kin?
> >
> >Margaret
> >
> >At 08:54 AM 19/09/99 -0700, you wrote:
> >>I am 62 - my local society calls it the Social Security Death index and no
>I
> >>did not know the initials and no I have never used it and no I am not a
>liar
> >>and yes I do resent the implication.
> >>
> >>My late father always said if you ask enough questions and the right
> >>questions you will find what you needed to know.
> >>Jean
> >>----- Original Message -----
> >>From: milamba <milamba@milamba.com>
> >>To: <sinclair@mids.org>
> >>Sent: Saturday, September 18, 1999 1:59 PM
> >>Subject: Re: Sinclair Genealogy Digest Number 11
> >>
> >>
> >> >Jean,
> >> >
> >> >SSDI = Social Security Death Index. but I'm quite sure you knew that -
> >> >couldn't have ever read a book on American genealogy without knowing it!
> >> >
> >> >As to the rest - my thoughts are in agreement with Lena's
> >> >
> >> >Margaret.
> >> >
> >> >At 03:42 PM 18/09/99 -0700, you wrote:
> >> >>I will not dignify the statement regarding $$$ with a response.  It is
>an
> >> >>insult to every hard-working genealogist in the United States.  There
>is
> >>no
> >> >>profit in genealogy unless you take the research of someone else and do
> >>not
> >> >>spend the hours and hours and travel the miles and miles to dig out the
> >> >>information.  To insinuate otherwise only proves that you have not
>trodden
> >> >>that path yourself.  As my CPA is fond of saying,  "you may break even
>if
> >> >>you live to be 150!"  If you wish to make money, you publish a trashy
> >> >>novel - you do not publish a family history.
> >> >>
> >> >>I have no idea what the SSDI base is,  nor do I intend to find out.  My
> >> >>entire research has been documented directly from the primary source
>and
> >> >>used only to preserve the 35 years of family histories entrusted to me.
> >> >>
> >> >>I have no fear of the internet whatsoever - What is there to fear?
>After
> >> >>teaching 25 years and completing 5 years of college, I do however,
>have a
> >> >>fear of the loss of an  individual's right to preserve their own
>history,
> >> >>and a great fear of new knowledge being lost as authors and musicians
>are
> >> >>finding their materials stolen daily.
> >> >>Jean
> >> >>
> >> >>----- Original Message -----
> >> >>From: Lena A L <lal@algonet.se>
> >> >>To: <sinclair@mids.org>; milamba <milamba@milamba.com>
> >> >>Sent: Saturday, September 18, 1999 12:41 PM
> >> >>Subject: Re: Sinclair Genealogy Digest Number 11
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> >Dear Jean and others who fear the Global Database,
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Jean Grigsby wrote:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> My feelings derive from the many, many people who have requested
>that
> >> >>their
> >> >> >> family history not be used for public consumption.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >The future Global base it not intended to be public in the sense that
> >> >> >the whole world population may access the base. It's for Sinclairs
>only,
> >> >> >that's why the base it NOT accessible via the net for the time being.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>  I can still recall my
> >> >> >> nephew calling me late one night as he had found my parents (his
> >> >> >> grandparents) listed on a website and only one child listed - me.
>He
> >>was
> >> >> >> extremely upset and to be quite frank so was I.  I had never heard
>of
> >>the
> >> >> >> person and when contacted he admitted he had copied the data from a
> >>small
> >> >> >> family book I had published in 1970 - 29 years ago.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >> >The important word above is the word PUBLISHED........ make it
>public...
> >> >> >and as you made it public there are no way of you stopping who ever
>from
> >> >> >doing the same as long as they have access to the source (unless they
> >> >> >violate rules of copywrite etc), just like you do when you quote some
> >> >> >other writer or person when giving information on this list.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>I had only made 10
> >> >> >> copies for family members and unfortunately one of the recipients
> >>passed
> >> >> >> away and during this 20 year period it had ended up in an
>"in-laws"
> >> >>hands -
> >> >> >> a person not even related to the family.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >That is exactly why me and Margaret are the only ones, at the moment,
> >> >> >that have access to the base. In the future though a copy of the base
> >> >> >will be held in the Sinclair Archives in Scotland accessible to
> >> >> >researcher in the same way old documents are accessible.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >I think the fear has to do with fear of new technology but if we
>realize
> >> >> >that there are no relevant difference between documents that consists
> >> >> >of  101010101110000101010100111000010000, bit, byte, kb, mb etc and
> >> >> >documents made out of paper or old papyrus scrolls for that matter.
>When
> >> >> >it comes down to basics it's pure data all of it. And I am quite
> >> >> >convinced Jean that you would not argue that access to old documents
>are
> >> >> >the base of all historical research. And Jean, have you never used
>the
> >> >> >SSDI base on the net?
> >> >> >
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> This has become a concern for most professional genealogists and
>most
> >>of
> >> >> >> them are simply refusing to share their material.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >> >I'm sorry Jean but I believe their motives for refusal has nothing to
>do
> >> >> >with the above. I think it has to do with $$$$$$$$. They will be out
>of
> >> >> >business if all data where easy accessible on the net. But that's a
> >> >> >whole different issue which I don't wish to discuss further.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>I refuse to allow a few
> >> >> >> to disrupt what I feel is an important goal - hence my refusal to
>send
> >> >>out
> >> >> >> material on any branch unless the person requesting the material is
>a
> >> >>proven
> >> >> >> descendant of that branch.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Well, then there will be much easier when learning history in the
> >> >> >future. No kings, no generals, no regents or royal families to
>memorize
> >> >> >as there will be no public records of them left.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Perhaps others will be as honest as I have been and state their
>true
> >> >> >reasons
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >As managing director of a historical museum I know the importance of
> >> >> >leaving documentation behind for coming generations to explore,
>research
> >> >> >and learn from. My true reason for starting this project was to
>gather
> >> >> >as much information as possible in one place without any profit what
>so
> >> >> >ever for my self (more than the warm feeling that I might have helped
> >> >> >some future researcher in the year 2099). And then, of course,
> >> >> >professional genealogists do have to think of the profit....... I
>don't!
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Regards
> >> >> >Lena
> >> >> >[ This is the Sinclair family discussion list, sinclair@mids.org
> >> >> >[ To get off or on the list, see
>http://www.mids.org/sinclair/list.html
> >> >>
> >> >>[ This is the Sinclair family discussion list, sinclair@mids.org
> >> >>[ To get off or on the list, see http://www.mids.org/sinclair/list.html
> >> >
> >> >[ This is the Sinclair family discussion list, sinclair@mids.org
> >> >[ To get off or on the list, see http://www.mids.org/sinclair/list.html
> >>
> >>[ This is the Sinclair family discussion list, sinclair@mids.org
> >>[ To get off or on the list, see http://www.mids.org/sinclair/list.html
> >
> >[ This is the Sinclair family discussion list, sinclair@mids.org
> >[ To get off or on the list, see http://www.mids.org/sinclair/list.html
>
>[ This is the Sinclair family discussion list, sinclair@mids.org
>[ To get off or on the list, see http://www.mids.org/sinclair/list.html

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