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Re: Sinclair Genealogy

As my father said, ask enough questions and you will eventually find the

If you would like to come to my house and see the literally thousands of
letters to and from people I have helped trace their lines "at NO COST"
prior to my first publication, feel free to make an appointment.
Unfortunately, in an effort to make the public records available to everyone
the answer was to get them into print.  As I am not a wealthy woman (in fact
I am a poor woman at the moment), the only way I can afford the cost of
printing and binding is to sell the product as cheaply as possible and still
make enough to print the nest one.  IRS has very strict guidelines dividing
a business from a hobby, and yes, I have gone through an audit since my
first publication and thanks to legal research done before the first
publication my records were and are,  perfect.

I am happy that Gary mentioned the Clan Sinclair library.  As this site has
never mentioned exactly who they were working for - albeit paid or unpaid -
that has been and still is my original  question.  WHEN that library (Clan
Sinclair) is a reality there will be a CD of all my archives provided to it
at no cost.  Until that time they will remain in the individual branches
where they belong.

I raised the question and it still has not been answered.  Considering the
response to what I consider a perfectly legitimate concern I guess I have
struck a number of nerves.

A point to remember - I was invited to join this site.  I am totally
ignorant of Scottish history and have thoroughly enjoyed reading the
material from a number of submitters on the early history  and I shall
continue to enjoy those.  I suggest we now change the subject; the horse is
Jean Grigsby

Perhaps you have not taken a genealogical class or been in direct contact
with the copyright office.  VERY FEW family records are public records.
Birth records were very rare before 1900 and the same is true with death
records.  The census records do not ensure that all of the children listed
belong to that family.  These are only three instances of genealogical
records that are not public record.  I could continue with marriages not
recorded except in Family Bibles, etc.

----- Original Message -----
From: milamba <milamba@milamba.com>
To: <sinclair@mids.org>
Sent: Sunday, September 19, 1999 4:02 PM
Subject: Re: Sinclair Genealogy

>Let me state from the outset that the Database that Lena is building and
>that I am assisting with is NOT for the general public.  Those people who
>are willing to contribute will be adding to the store of knowledge that is
>already maintained on the Sinclair's.  The only people who will ever have
>access to it are those who can prove that they are of Sinclair descent or
>whom have legitimate reasons for researching the Sinclair's.  Even then,
>private information will remain just that, PRIVATE, and inquires regarding
>living persons will be directed to the appropriate people.
>There is NO difference between this database and the books currently
>available through yourself, Jean, or through any other body, except that
>there is no fee changing hands when people access this database, and the
>fact that it is in electronic format rather than printed format.  The only
>people whom it's costing money are Lena and myself when we pay for access
>to various other sources to obtain information.
>Genealogical information is not private. It is public domain
>information.  The only thing that becomes copyrightable information is the
>format that the person chooses to put it in, or the design of the database,
>or the search engine for finding it etc.  The actual information can never
>be copyrighted.
>If you wish to continue with your divisive actions with regard to the
>database, Jean, then I would suggest that you also withdraw all the books
>you have for sale that contain genealogical information and make them
>FREELY available to those who can prove descent from a particular
>line.  And no, you do not have to recoup your costs... neither Lena nor I
>will be doing that, so why should you?
>It is a great shame that the Sinclair's and their descendents are so often
>hot-tempered.  It may have made us what we are but it also means that we
>are highly territorial - might I suggest that we all regard our
>genealogical research as a gift to our kin?
>At 08:54 AM 19/09/99 -0700, you wrote:
>>I am 62 - my local society calls it the Social Security Death index and no
>>did not know the initials and no I have never used it and no I am not a
>>and yes I do resent the implication.
>>My late father always said if you ask enough questions and the right
>>questions you will find what you needed to know.
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: milamba <milamba@milamba.com>
>>To: <sinclair@mids.org>
>>Sent: Saturday, September 18, 1999 1:59 PM
>>Subject: Re: Sinclair Genealogy Digest Number 11
>> >Jean,
>> >
>> >SSDI = Social Security Death Index. but I'm quite sure you knew that -
>> >couldn't have ever read a book on American genealogy without knowing it!
>> >
>> >As to the rest - my thoughts are in agreement with Lena's
>> >
>> >Margaret.
>> >
>> >At 03:42 PM 18/09/99 -0700, you wrote:
>> >>I will not dignify the statement regarding $$$ with a response.  It is
>> >>insult to every hard-working genealogist in the United States.  There
>> >>profit in genealogy unless you take the research of someone else and do
>> >>spend the hours and hours and travel the miles and miles to dig out the
>> >>information.  To insinuate otherwise only proves that you have not
>> >>that path yourself.  As my CPA is fond of saying,  "you may break even
>> >>you live to be 150!"  If you wish to make money, you publish a trashy
>> >>novel - you do not publish a family history.
>> >>
>> >>I have no idea what the SSDI base is,  nor do I intend to find out.  My
>> >>entire research has been documented directly from the primary source
>> >>used only to preserve the 35 years of family histories entrusted to me.
>> >>
>> >>I have no fear of the internet whatsoever - What is there to fear?
>> >>teaching 25 years and completing 5 years of college, I do however,
have a
>> >>fear of the loss of an  individual's right to preserve their own
>> >>and a great fear of new knowledge being lost as authors and musicians
>> >>finding their materials stolen daily.
>> >>Jean
>> >>
>> >>----- Original Message -----
>> >>From: Lena A L <lal@algonet.se>
>> >>To: <sinclair@mids.org>; milamba <milamba@milamba.com>
>> >>Sent: Saturday, September 18, 1999 12:41 PM
>> >>Subject: Re: Sinclair Genealogy Digest Number 11
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> >Dear Jean and others who fear the Global Database,
>> >> >
>> >> >Jean Grigsby wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> My feelings derive from the many, many people who have requested
>> >>their
>> >> >> family history not be used for public consumption.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >The future Global base it not intended to be public in the sense that
>> >> >the whole world population may access the base. It's for Sinclairs
>> >> >that's why the base it NOT accessible via the net for the time being.
>> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>  I can still recall my
>> >> >> nephew calling me late one night as he had found my parents (his
>> >> >> grandparents) listed on a website and only one child listed - me.
>> >> >> extremely upset and to be quite frank so was I.  I had never heard
>> >> >> person and when contacted he admitted he had copied the data from a
>> >> >> family book I had published in 1970 - 29 years ago.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >The important word above is the word PUBLISHED........ make it
>> >> >and as you made it public there are no way of you stopping who ever
>> >> >doing the same as long as they have access to the source (unless they
>> >> >violate rules of copywrite etc), just like you do when you quote some
>> >> >other writer or person when giving information on this list.
>> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>I had only made 10
>> >> >> copies for family members and unfortunately one of the recipients
>> >> >> away and during this 20 year period it had ended up in an
>> >>hands -
>> >> >> a person not even related to the family.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >That is exactly why me and Margaret are the only ones, at the moment,
>> >> >that have access to the base. In the future though a copy of the base
>> >> >will be held in the Sinclair Archives in Scotland accessible to
>> >> >researcher in the same way old documents are accessible.
>> >> >
>> >> >I think the fear has to do with fear of new technology but if we
>> >> >that there are no relevant difference between documents that consists
>> >> >of  101010101110000101010100111000010000, bit, byte, kb, mb etc and
>> >> >documents made out of paper or old papyrus scrolls for that matter.
>> >> >it comes down to basics it's pure data all of it. And I am quite
>> >> >convinced Jean that you would not argue that access to old documents
>> >> >the base of all historical research. And Jean, have you never used
>> >> >SSDI base on the net?
>> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> This has become a concern for most professional genealogists and
>> >> >> them are simply refusing to share their material.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >I'm sorry Jean but I believe their motives for refusal has nothing to
>> >> >with the above. I think it has to do with $$$$$$$$. They will be out
>> >> >business if all data where easy accessible on the net. But that's a
>> >> >whole different issue which I don't wish to discuss further.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>I refuse to allow a few
>> >> >> to disrupt what I feel is an important goal - hence my refusal to
>> >>out
>> >> >> material on any branch unless the person requesting the material is
>> >>proven
>> >> >> descendant of that branch.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >Well, then there will be much easier when learning history in the
>> >> >future. No kings, no generals, no regents or royal families to
>> >> >as there will be no public records of them left.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Perhaps others will be as honest as I have been and state their
>> >> >reasons
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >As managing director of a historical museum I know the importance of
>> >> >leaving documentation behind for coming generations to explore,
>> >> >and learn from. My true reason for starting this project was to
>> >> >as much information as possible in one place without any profit what
>> >> >ever for my self (more than the warm feeling that I might have helped
>> >> >some future researcher in the year 2099). And then, of course,
>> >> >professional genealogists do have to think of the profit....... I
>> >> >
>> >> >Regards
>> >> >Lena
>> >> >[ This is the Sinclair family discussion list, sinclair@mids.org
>> >> >[ To get off or on the list, see
>> >>
>> >>[ This is the Sinclair family discussion list, sinclair@mids.org
>> >>[ To get off or on the list, see http://www.mids.org/sinclair/list.html
>> >
>> >[ This is the Sinclair family discussion list, sinclair@mids.org
>> >[ To get off or on the list, see http://www.mids.org/sinclair/list.html
>>[ This is the Sinclair family discussion list, sinclair@mids.org
>>[ To get off or on the list, see http://www.mids.org/sinclair/list.html
>[ This is the Sinclair family discussion list, sinclair@mids.org
>[ To get off or on the list, see http://www.mids.org/sinclair/list.html

[ This is the Sinclair family discussion list, sinclair@mids.org
[ To get off or on the list, see http://www.mids.org/sinclair/list.html