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Dear Bruce Looking for the date of Freemasonry's establishment bears, for me, only on the 'Master Mason' title of William. Glen Cook and John Lilly together with Mel Sinclair's South Carolina site show that the early charters were Guild charters. Joe Erks has demonstrated that many, if not all, of the Masonic are within Rosslyn. William was more the Patron that an actual Guild Chief or Freemason. The practices and origins of Freemasonry interesting but it is a secret society. Secret societies must by definition keep secrets for the rest of us. At least there is a starting point for a discussion of William. Undisputedly he is the Lord of Rosslyn and Earl of Caithness and builder of the jewel we call Rosslyn. One correspondent states the he was one of four claimants for the throne of Norway in one place and in another the same writer states he was one of three. The existence of the Kalmar Union's dynastic tilt seem to preclude these inconsistent claims. Norway seems to be one of many places Sinclairs would have been king, if we believe the claimant. England, had the cavalry skirmishes at Val-es-Dunes gone the other way. Norway had it not been for the Hansa Sicily, but for circumstance. Ireland, if you subscribe to my ridiculous theory. Are Sinclairs always the bridesmaid never the bride? The claim Earl William was co founder of the Order of the Golden Fleece is unsupported, in fact contradicted, by the records..Little, if any documentation exists on these claims.The claims are singled sourced and undocumented. To find historical information we should start with as many facts as possible and then draw conclusions. A lot of so called Sinclair history seems to start by drawing a conclusion and shoehorning facts into the conclusion. We have legends being created because one man wrote it down and another repeated it, all within the past 125 years. Not much of a legend! One thing about French records they are complete, so complete they overwhelm you with a mass of paper. It is easy to lose your way in an avalanche of paper. Besides learning to see, there is another skill, learning not to see what is not. Sinclair ----- Original Message ----- From: "bruce carlyon" <Bruce_Carlyon@syncsoft.com.au> To: <sinclair@quarterman.org> Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 2:00 AM Subject: RE: Information [ This is the Sinclair family discussion list, sinclair@quarterman.org [ To get off or on the list, see http://sinclair.quarterman.org/list.html