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In 1850, the TRUTH was that man could not fly. In 1900, the TRUTH was that there was no such thing as gorillas. They simply didn't exist. The TRUTH is that on On Friday the 13th of October 1307, the Knights Templar were captured in France and arrested on a variety of charges and accusations. The trials lasted until March 19th, 1314. At that time Jacques de Molay, the last known Grand Master of that order, was burned at the stake. What's not known is whether the order was extinguished in its entirety. What's not known is what happened to the order's ships. What's not known is whether or not a secret order called Freemasonry, who claims to have existed in England and other countries for so long, existed for centuries in secret and was in fact a continuation of the Knights Templar. So let's ask ourselves - If something is not proven, can it have existed? Did gorillas exist in the jungles before they were discovered by Western Man ? According to Tim Wallace-Murphy, the answer is an absolute NO. They did not exist until they were discovered by western man. And the Knights Templar "who were suppressed over 127 years prior to the foundations of Rosslyn even being laid" could not have existed in some other form as J.J. Carpenter suggested in the book "Born in Blood – The Last Secrets of Freemasonry." And they could not have possible had anything to do with either Rosslyn or Henri St. Clair's voyages. It is impossible that they could have been operating in secret under a different name, in different parts of the world, carrying out whatever their plans and missions were BECAUSE MR. WALLACE-MURPHY DOESN'T KNOW IT !!!! Mr. Wallace-Murphy recommends we "fantasist(s)" stop entertaining ourselves with what might have happened and adhere to the facts that are known. My question to Mr. Wallace-Murphy is this - What do you suppose motivates us to go out and seek those truths that are not yet known? I suggest it's the possibilities, the fantasies that we want to prove. If we adhere only to what's known, and adhere only to a path of what's already been discovered, I suggest we'd never learn anything. The TRUTH probably lies somewhere between our extremes - Mr. Wallace-Murphy's cautious, pragmatic approach... And those of us on this discussion list who enjoy the hunt, the speculation about what might have happened. Perhaps I'm in violent agreement with Mr. Wallace-Murphy. Perhaps we seek the same end via a different method. I for one enjoy the method of speculation, the method of the "fantasist." And I argue there is method here. The method of forming a hypothesis and then seeking to prove it. And, while I agree some of the hypotheses are grand, many of them have already been proven. If, in 1900, you had told me there were large, hairy manlike apes in the jungles, I would have told you "well, let's go look for them." Mr. Wallace-Murphy would have told you you're a fantasist.