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Re: Moving on to Telba

Well here are some thoughts.

Could it be that the exact wording of Bruce's request has been altered
through the years?  Who can state emphatically  that today we know the exact
    Surely he recognized the danger of sending his loved friends into
certain conflict if not death in the Holy Land?   Could he have been content
to ask them to take his heart into battle against the Moslems.  Going to
Teba would have accomplished this.
In "Robert the Bruce" by Ronald McNair Scott, it says pg. 116:  "He (Bruce)
went on to say that he had made a vow to God that if he should live to see
the end of his wars and be able to leave the realm in peace and security, he
would go in person to fight against the heathen.   But when that time had
come his body had been stricken by mortal sickness and since it could not go
forward he asked them to choose one among their number to carry his heart
against the enemies of Christ."
    Now if these words be anywhere close to what he said, then there is no
specific commission to go to the Holy Land.  Could it be that Douglas
interpreted the request in his own way?

"Early in the spring of 1330, he (Douglas) set sail from Berwick in a ship
fitted out in royal state so that all might know he was the bearer of the
heart of Robert, King of Scotland, and on his way to lay it in the Holy
Sepulcher in Jerusalem.  He had on board 6 knights, linked in friendship,
neighboring landowners from the Stewart domains:  Sir William Sinclair of
Roslyn ( they really were still St. Clairs or de St. Clair)  , Sir Robert
and Sir Walter Logan, Sir William Keith, Sir Alan Cathcart and Sir Seymour
Loccar of Lee and one other knight  (John Sinclair) unnamed.  Twenty-six
squires and gentlemen were there to serve them."
     This was hardly enough people to take Bruce's heart into enemy

"Their first port of call was Suys in Flanders.  Here Douglas remained
twelve days, entertaining liberally on gold and silver plate and letting it
be known that any who wished to fight in the holy Land were welcome to join
his company.  He then sailed in rough seas around the coast of Spain and up
the Guadalquiver River to drop anchor in the city of Seville."

I think there was something not clearly understood by us today that happened
at Sluys.  Perhaps Douglas believed that he could raise a significant force
while they waited there.
Surely word had preceded them.  Bruce had been dead for about 9 months.
There is no mention that any knights joined them and then again it doesn't
say they didn't but you would think if there had been a goodly gathering in
of knights, some word would have come down to us.
   Just tossing out ideas.   Could the Pope have discouraged this waste of
the flower of knighthood and directed all efforts towards Spain?  Spain had
been declared a holy Crusade by him.  So men were reluctant to go to
Jerusalem where they surely would be killed outside the sanctioned Spanish
crusade.  By going on this Crusade in Spain, they chose the sure way to
heaven.   The men who joined the Crusade against the Cathars in the 12th
century only signed up for 3 or 4 months at a time usually.  The closer
European Crusades were shorter, less risky, easier to get to and thus more
desirable.  Maybe when it became obvious to Douglas that he would not have
nearly enough men, he rethought exactly what Bruce had said and chose to go
to Spain also.
Another idea.  Maybe there was some sort of agreement (with the Pope or the
Spanish king or ??)  that if they could destroy the Moors, then all the
knights fighting there would join them and go on to Jerusalem.
   I have wondered about the significance of William Sinclair  the heir to
Henry Sinclair perhaps by now the Grand Master of Scotland.  Somewhere
during the time of his father Henry Sinclair this title could have been
bestowed in secret.   Now Henry was an old warrior, and here was his
representative in the person of young William.   Certainly his presence at
Sluys should have brought forth some volunteers unless some outside presence
was holding them back.
   Just thinking about the fact that Knights Templars were still living in
secret because of their excommunication.  I wonder if this figured into
things some how.  When was it that the excommunication was lifted?


----- Original Message -----
From: "bruce carlyon" <Bruce_Carlyon@syncsoft.com.au>
To: <sinclair@quarterman.org>
Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 7:42 PM
Subject: Moving on to Telba

> Love, Respect and Silence......
> Moving on.
> As we know that France and Scotland kept the old alliance.

[ Excess quotations omitted. ]

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