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4 times removed means: 4 generations from (and not including) the common ancestor or from the first cousin. It's use to show relationship between different generations and not the same generations. If first cousins, each had great-great-grandchildren, those great-great-grandchildren (because they are the same generation) would be consider 5th cousin, but because you are showing relationship between one of the first cousin, towards her/him first cousin's great-great-grandchildren, than you would say "first cousin 4 times removed". Wanda Sinclair Rexdale, Ontario ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sinclair" <labehotiere@wanadoo.fr> To: <sinclair@quarterman.org> Sent: Saturday, September 07, 2002 11:39 PM Subject: Re: note for Bannockburn and Gilbert de Clare > Dear Mrs Siperek > > What is a first cousin 4 times removed? > > Sinclair [ Excess quotations omitted. ] [ This is the Sinclair family discussion list, sinclair@quarterman.org [ To get off or on the list, see http://sinclair.quarterman.org/list.html