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Surely discussion lists exist for people to discuss the issues of the day that are of concern, in this instance of concern to the Sincalirs and all who are ineteresetd in their history. Study that history in depth. While there are undoubted instances or war, brutality and bad behaviour to be found, the main thrust of St Clair history is an emphasis on the tur import of 'noblesse oblige'. Compassionate concern for the betterement of mankind. Hence the St Clair involvement with the Templars and later Freemasonry. We disregard the Freemasonic/St Clair input to the creation of the Constitution of the United Stes at our peril. Surely Clann membership has not changed its philosphical outlook so dramatically that we can no longer discuss issues of humanitarian interest; concepts of justice and truth, to say nothing of exercising our obligation to question our political representatives when they send troops in our name to put their lives on the line? Most of the present day members of the Sinclairs that I have had the priviledge of meeting are compassionate people concerned with humanitarian issues and are rightly proud of the role their ancestors have played in bringing these matters into the public arena for the benfit of all. Blind unthinking patriotism of the 'my country right or wrong variety' was the sort of jingoistic patriotism condemned by Dr Johnson in his first English dictionary as 'the last refuge of a scoundrel'. Our natural and innate pride in whatever our national heritage may be should never blind us to the inescapable fact that nations, just like individuals, can err and are as capable of committing evil acts as they are of performing good deeds. Best wishes Tim [ This is the Sinclair family discussion list, sinclair@quarterman.org [ To get off or on the list, see http://sinclair.quarterman.org/list.html