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Thank you Laurel for the history symposium. (I'm smiling) Would you believe, the point is not really made to the school children that the United States didn't begin until after the war ended which is well after 1776. I have seen several articles and another web site promulgated by the state of Pennsylvania (for you Ian (grin)) on Arthur St. Clair. He was taken to task, obviously for losing 200 men and guns, but was allowed to keep his territorial governorship. By looking at the number of St. Clair/Sinclair surnames in that North West Territory, the gentleman did an outstanding job of furthering the Sinclairs in that part of the US. I think I put in an earlier post, that he had a daughter who was sought after by an indian chief (whose name escapes me). General St. Clair denied his suit. It is somewhere in the archives, back when I first came on here. I also rashly said that Ohio was part of the NW Territory, and was taken to task for that. [ This is the Sinclair family discussion list, sinclair@quarterman.org [ To get off or on the list, see http://sinclair.quarterman.org/list.html