>Flanders and Picardy were never part of the Norman domain they were
>Burgandian, Hapsburg and Frankish where would William get Flemish troops?
>
>Douglas is a well known name the Black Douglases in 1449 and his band of
>tratiors stain the pages of Scots history the King James II had to almost
>elimate them to regain the Kingdom. James Douglas the Earl of Morton wared
>aginst the crown until 1572 in civil war. King James V in his minority was
>held under duress by Archibald Douglas. They are many other instances of the
>pages of history being smeared with Douglas treachery.
Douglas was a Galloway family. Malcolm III was the first King of Scots
to make Galloway more or less part of the kingdom. Galloway was the wild
west of Scotland in the times of Malcolm III, David I, and up through those
of Robert the Bruce. The Black Douglas was best known for raiding the north
of England, which caused mothers to teach their children a rhyme about
behaving or the Black Douglas would get you.
One reason for the Bruce family being granted land in Annandale was to help
contain the wild lands of Galloway. However, as everyone knows Sir James
Douglas was one of the Bruce's main lieutenants (see Barbour's Brus,
http://www.arts.gla.ac.uk/www/english/comet/starn/poetry/brus/contents.htm
), and in the famous incident of
the attempt to carry Bruce's heart to the Holy Land it was Sir James Douglas,
Sir Robert Logan and Sir William Keith who fought at Teba with William and
John Sinclair.
As for the origin of the Douglas name, in what I quoted previously I was
quoting from scotclans, as I said; I know nothing more about it than that.
See:
http://www.scotclans.com/clans/douglas.htm
See also:
http://www.chebucto.ns.ca/Heritage/FSCNS/Scots_NS/Clans/Douglas.html
Incidentally, citing and preserving sources is something we all would
do well to do better.
Please note that I take no issue with John Duguid's version; I have no
Gaelic and he as a Scot in Scotland should know a lot better than me
about Gaelic name derivations.
>Sinclair stood with William, David, Malcom, Alexander the Bruce and in
>Dunbar for King and country against Cromwell. After the Act of Union we
>were loyal to our King. Archibald, first Viscount Thurso, was George VI
>Minster of Air in WWII.
>
>No page of history speaks of Sinclair as traitors.
>
>Sinclair
Probably so, although there were plenty of instances of Sinclairs failing
to win the day, as at Altimarlach, and as when Oliver Sinclair lost one
against the English (I know some people on this list know that latter story;
does somebody want to tell it?).
There was one good Douglas poet, though. Was there ever a Sinclair poet? :-)
Somewhat more seriously, if we want the Sinclair story to be told, maybe
that's what we need; a few Sinclair poets. I don't mean in verse, I mean
a few good storytellers with some well-honed stories to tell. Pete Cummings
may have been such a one, with his tight focus on Prince Henry Sinclair.
There seems to be interest now in the even wider 1200 year history
of the Sinclair family. Who will distill that story?
Refined and carefully-researched versions are good. As I said recently,
a true story is usually even better than a trite story.
However, please don't expect this list to be where you find the distilled
story and only that. As Laurel has put it, in the list we try to stir up
information. This is a discussion list; it will be confusing at times,
and it is *supposed* to have many people going in different directions.
Here we mine the ore and mount some expeditions. In the paper newsletters
I would hope to see some refined metal and maybe even some well-wrought
trumpets for playing fine tunes about the results of these and other
expeditions. No doubt there will be more books, as well. Not to mention
presentations at games, and videos, and television, and of course many
web pages.
I don't agree about too many people, however. Many hands make light work.
We have 1200 years of story to tell; that's almost 50 generations, and
across much of Europe and the rest of the world. That's a lot of stories
within the story to tell, and they will need a lot of story tellers.
The more the merrier.
In addition to the fine tunes and well-told stories for the public, there
are also plenty of veins of ore that need careful sifting and academic
discussion. There is probably a Ph.D. thesis for somebody in the Argyll
work that Rory and Juli and Karen have started, for example.
Concerning the web pages,
http://www.mids.org/sinclair/
I think I will put up some disclaimers that most of what you see there
is work in progress, not the final word, and if you want to see how it
comes out, you should join the list and join a clan organization.
And as for only recent environment or recent heredity determining who
you are, I don't think that is all there is to it. My experience with
genealogy thus far (see, for example, www.quarterman.org) is that like
people tend to group together across generations. Your remote ancestors
may very well be more like you than your neighbors.
And it's not entirely a matter of relation, either. Ancestry provides
a thread with which to follow the course of history. Malcolm Canmore
was just another historical figure to me until I realized that he was
*the* King of Scots who first established the Sinclairs in Scotland.
Similarly, I knew who Margaret was, more or less, but she became a lot
more interesting when I realized that William the Seemly was associated
with her. Personally, I'm always looking for traces of another Norman
family, and the more I know about the early Normans, the more likely
I will find them.
Why examine history at all? Well, I can tell you that in my present
occupation I do take heart from the story of Bruce and the spider.
And the battle of Roslin as an example of use of the materials at hand
and just-in-time reinforcement is also quite instructive.
So I suggest that the Sinclair clan organizations mine the copious
ore that is being turned up in the chaotic discussions on this list
and elsewhere, and produce some fine trumpets and well-told tales for
presentation to the rest of the world. Many willing hands and voices
have been raised here in the list. The clan organizations have already
called on some of them, and there are others still raised.
John S. Quarterman <jsq@mids.org>
PS: I have no Douglas relations, as far as I know. I do have Flemish
ancestors, through a much different route.
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