Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999
The Knights Templars & The Complete History of the Masonic Knighthood.
|1136-1146||Robert de Craon|
|1146-1149||Everard des Barres|
|1149-1153||Bernard de Trmelai|
|1153-1156||Andre de Montbard|
|1156-1169||Bertrand de Blanchefort|
|1169-1171||Philip de Milly|
|1171-1179||Odo de St Amand|
|1179-1184||Arnold de Toroga|
|1185-1189||Gerard de Ridfort|
|1191-1193||Robert de Sable|
|1201-1208||Philip de Plessiez|
|1209-1219||William de Chartres|
|1219-1230||Pedro de Montaigu|
|(???)-1244||Armond de Perigord|
|1245-1247||Richard de Bures|
|1247-1250||William de Sonnac|
|1250-1256||Reynald de Vichiers|
|1273-1291||William de Beaujeu|
|1291-1293||Tibald de Gaudin|
|1293-1314||Jacques de Molay||
Sinclairs and Templars
The Sinclair family is indelibly associated with the Templars
in the minds of many.
It has even been said that it was the Knights Templar, led by
William Sinclair, who turned the tide at the
Battle of Bannockburn.
One of the reasons for this association, at least in the popular mind,
is the 1983 book,
Holy Blood, Holy Grail,
which purports to trace the bloodline of the Sinclairs back to the most
significant religious figure in western history.
A more sober and more recent book,
The Labyrinth Of The Grail,
traces the links between the Knights Templar, the Masons, and the Sinclairs.
Sinclairs certainly were Masons, even for a long time hereditary Grand Masters
of the Masons in Scotland. The Masons were quite likely a continuation of
the Knights Templar.
Thus there is some verifiable association.
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 16:34:32 -0000
``List of Grand Masters, from the Death of Jacques de Molay.
``Order was not annihilated either by the bull of Clement V. or
the despotism of Philip IV., or the treachery and meanness of
Edward II., but is due to the action of De Molay himself, who in
anticipation of his fate, A. D. 1313, appointed John Mark Larmenius
as his successor in office. From that time to the present
regular and uninterrupted succession of Grand Masters has been
maintained, as follows:''
[See next column to the right.]
The Knights Templars & The Complete History of the Masonic Knighthood.
LIST OF GRAND MASTERS OF KNIGHTS TEMPLARS, 1313 to 1873.
``(From Mackey's Lexicon of Freemasonry.)
|John Mark Larmenius||1313|
|Thomas Theobald Alexandrinus;||otherwise|
|Francis Thomas Theobald||1324|
|Arnold de Braque||1340|
|John de Claremont||1349|
|Bertrand du Guesclin||1357|
|John de Croy||1451|
|Galeatius de Salazar||1497|
|Gaspard de Galtiaco Tavanensis||1544|
|Henry de Montmorency||1574|
|Charles de Valois||1615|
|James Ruxellius de Granceio||1651|
|James Henry, Duc de Duras||1681|
|Philip, Duke of Orleans||1705|
|Louis Augustus Bourbon||1724|
|Louis Henry Bourbon Conde||1737|
|Louis Francis Bourbon Conty||1741|
|Louis Hercules Timoleon, Due de Cosse Brissac.||1776|
|Claude M. R. Chevillon||1792|
|Bernard Raymund Fabre Palaprat||1804|
|Sir William Sidney Smith||1838 Died 1840||
The so-called Charter of Larmenius
Date: Thu, 02 Dec 1999
I regret to inform you that in the opinion of most scholars,both academic
and esoteric, the so-called Charter of Larmenius is a forgery and the list
of alleged Grand-masters created to give it some semblance of authenticity,
is completely spurious.
If you wish to trace an unbroken line of transmission of templar teaching
and ideals, look to the St Clairs of
Roslin, who, as Grand-masters of the
Hard and Soft Guilds of Scotland, passed this vital stream of knowledge to
the true sucessors of Templarism, the craft of Freemasonry.
Support your claims, please
From: Rob Cohn
Date: Sat, 04 Dec 1999 08:09:24 -0400
attn: Tim, Don, Sinclair,
Occasionally, one comes across some information regarding some aspect
the Sinclair web
and someone claims it is based on forged information.
Some claim that the Zeno
narratives are fakes, some claim that the
documents that surfaced in the French Archives earlier this century
regarding the Priory of Sion are forgeries. (Sat morning grammar, sorry)
I find that whenever speaking about
voyage there are those who cry
However, I have not been able to find out who determined that the Sion
douments were fakes and by what process - and no one seems to
know...they just claim that they are fakes...
this Grandmaster List
is a fake...by what process was that
determined...I noticed that you said that "most" scholars feel that they
are fakes...so obviously, as in the case of Henry's Voyage, there is
What Don is so eloquently asking is: says who exactly? Others may have
phrased it differently but the questions stands...
I am on this list to further my knowlege...it is the responsibility of
those who join groups to teach as well as learn...I am certain that Tim
has gained valuable information and insight from being on this
list...how about contributing on this discussion?
I understand that you are writing a book about Prince Henry's
Voyage..."Most" scholars feel that it never took place...
If "most scholars feel" is sufficient reason for you to disregard this
GM list...why is it not enough to disregard Henry's Voyage...?
And how say the highly placed Templars who monitor this list?
Good topic for a weekend debate - I loved the Stone of Scone one,
Got a picture of that rock, Niven? Keep up the great work...
be at peace, Sinclairs
The Nature of these Web Pages
Your friendly webmaster here.
Please note that just because something appears in
these web pages
doesn't mean it is or is not true.
There is a lot of speculation in these web pages.
Where possible, I try to present both sides of any controversial issue.
Except in occasional interjections such as this one, I prefer
to present topics in the original words of those who have
posted messages about them.
Everyone please remember that history is largely a matter of opinion.
I do try to select texts that are coherent and make sense,
but that does not mean that they are necessarily true.
Where there is some clear consensus that I can detect
as to the historical facts, I do try to present that consensus.
But remember, I am just a scribe; I do not claim to be a historian,
and I am certainly not an expert in all (if any) of the topic areas
covered in these web pages.
Some of the people quoted in these web pages are experts in their
subject areas; some of them are the foremost such experts in the world.
But even they can have differences of opinion.
For that matter, many of these texts are questions, not assertions.
Even the texts that are not phrased as questions often have
value in being treated as questions.
Sometimes this method results in significant new research that changes
some people's opinions, as in the
That said, I strongly urge everyone to cite their sources,
and I include sources wherever possible.
Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1999 22:07:44 -0000
While I will happily give references to any assertions or statements of
fact or opinion I make, may I enquire - in the light of your comment 'do not
come to the debate' - what work have you had published, and by whom?
If you can read French, may I suggest a good starting point would be the
'Cahier d'etude' on the subject of the 'Transmission of Larmenius' published
two years ago by the 'Centre des Etudes et des Recherches Templieres' in
Campagne-sur-Aude.This lists a good cross section of scholarly comment on
this dubious document.
Among serious authors who have commented in recent years, may I list
Peter Partner, (The Knights Templar and their Myth
- Oxford University Press
1981) who claims the document was forged by Dr. Ladru in the late
seventeenth, early eighteenth century. John Robinson (The Lost Secrets of
Freemasonry - Born in Blood - Century 1990) who states that it is now
proven to be a blatent forgery. Baigent and Leigh (The Temple and the
Lodge - Jonathan Cape 1989) who are non-committal. Lastly, Knight and Lomas
on the one hand and Picknet on Prince on the other, who both simply assume
its veracity asit is used to support the central themes of their works,
namely The Second Messiah (K & L) and The Templar Revelation
( P & P).
Thus scholarly authorswith good reputations either condemn it, or at
best equivocate, while other, more speculative authors pushing highly
arguable themes, sometimes endorse it.
What does the document itself tell us? Rather a lot. The original can be
inspected in Mark Masons Hall in London. It is in cipher, which upon
translation reveals not the clumsy, ecclesiastical Latin of the medieval era
to be found on so many charters, documents and deeds from that time, but a
far more polished and scholarly form of the language used in universities
and medical schools in eighteenth century Europe. According to most scholars
who have commented on the prose style used, it is quite obviously the
product of a seventeenth or eighteenth century mind, well steeped in the
masonic lore of that time and bears no relationship whatsoever to the
phraseology current in the early years of the fourteenth century.
The alleged list of Grandmasters includes among their number, several
Princes of the Royal House of Bourbon. Some absolute howlers are made in
their alleged titles which quite obviously indicate that no-one from that
social class had anything to do with the document whatsoever much less
became a Grandmaster repsonsible for it..
According to the consensus among the scholars who have studied this
document, the most favoured candidate for the position of forger, is not Dr
Bernard Fabre-Palaprat who did most to promote it, but a certain colleague
of his a Dr Ladru.
Therefore my dear challenger, the debate is on. I have responded to your
challenge - now, where are your proofs of theis document's authenticity -
with sources please?
Date: Sun, 5 Dec 1999 13:43:17 -0000
Mon cher Labehotierre,
I regret to inform you that the alleged listof Gandsmasters in the Larmenius
document is entrely spurious. However, as I mentioned in my first posting on
this subject, there is a creditable form of transmssion of Templar thought
and tradition that is to be found in Scotland. This is not restricted to
the St Clair connection via the guilds and laterfreemasonry, but can also be
found in private neo-masonic orders kept alive within the confines of
certain families,e.g. the Montgomeries. One way or another there are strong
indications that the order was kept alive in Scotland and later became
manifest in certain of the Templar degrees of Scoottish Freemasonry.
If there are any modern Templar orders with some degree of authentic
continuity with the original order, they too are to be found in Scotland.
howevere there is some dispute about this and, at the moment at least, I am
open-minded pending some degree of proof.
In order to assist your research, the adress of CERT is as follows:
Centre d'Etudes et de Recherches Templieres
incidentally they have a premanent exhibition at Campagne-sur-Aude
which is well worth visiting. The founder and president of the organisation
is Georges Kiess who has done some valuablework on authenticating Templar
sites in the region.
Boite Postale 42
Tel. no. 00 33 4 68 74 01 30
Last changed: 01/02/28 22:40:55