Re: St. Clair and Sinclair spellings

["John S. Quarterman" <jsq@mids.org>]

>
>I was surprised to read Jean haddow's comment that the "Rosslyn" Sinclairs
>might want to retain the French version of the name.

Jean Haddow didn't say that; Toni Sinclair did.
Jean is the one who said that keeping a French pronunciation was unlikely.
It's easy to become confused when the quotation marks (>) get deep.

>When I visited Rosslyn it appeared from the eariest gravestones that the
>original Sinclairs there were indeed Spanish and bore the name Sancto Clara.

Spanish would be San Claro.
Spanish is also Santa Clara, as in Santa Clara, California,
but that's a different saint; see
 http://www.mids.org/origins.html

>Has anyone else come across this version ?

What you are aiming at is the Latin version of Sinclair or St. Clair,
as for example in the Declaration of Arbroath, in which our ancestor
is listed as Henricus de Sancto Claro (notice the letter o on the end
of each word, which makes their genders both masculine and thus matching).
See
 http://www.tartans.com/arblatin.html
or
 http://www.geo.ed.ac.uk/home/Scotland/arbroath_latin.html

I think this is the version of the name that Fred Pohl liked to
translate as Holy Light.  It's actually taken from our namesake
saint, Sanctus Clarus (Latin) or Saint Clare or Saint Clair (English).
The name Clare or Clarus comes from the same Latin root as the word
clarity in English.  Claro is just another inflection of Clarus
(don't ask me which one; I'm no student of Latin).

In any case, Latin was the universal tongue of educated people in
Europe in those days, and Latin versions of most names were common for
legal documents and the like.  So in a document addressed to the Pope,
Henry St. Clair wrote his name in Latin as Henricus de Sancto Claro,
Duncan Count of Fife wrote his name as Duncanus Comes de Fyf, etc.

For another example, Columbus is Latin; Christofo's name as he
was given it in his home town of Genoa, Italy was Colombo.

>Ally Sinclair

John Sinclair Quarterman <jsq@mids.org>


>From: Jean Haddow <jean@hadpad.demon.co.uk>
>To: sinclair@jump.net <sinclair@jump.net>
>Date: 01 April 1999 00:23
>Subject: Re: St. Clair and Sinclair spellings
>
>
>>
>>In message <v01530501b31976b12bce@[207.139.201.83]>, Antonia Sinclair
>><asflwr@cujo2.icom.ca> writes
>>>
>>>To Chris, Ray, and anyone else interested in a possible evolution of our
>name:
>>>
>>>While talking with Rebecca last week, she said her grandmother called her
>>>husband "Sinclair", the same way which we pronounce it "Sinkler" (accent
>on
>>>Sin!).  It suddenly hit me that it might be possible that the St. Clairs
>who
>>>stayed in the Lothian/Rosslyn area of Scotland might prefer to keep the
>"French"
>>>version.
>>
>>This is Jean Haddow replying to your question - now the whole idea of
>>anyone keeping a diffrent stress on the pronunciation of a name over so
>>many hundreds of years is very unlikely and has not ever to my
>>knowledge, hapenned.
>>
>>The pronunciation is Sinclair or,as you would undretsand, Sinkler  (It
>>certainly isn't the spelling.)
>>>
>>>However, the ones who went north to Caithness may have started using a
>version
>>>which sounded more like a local name (note the many village names like
>Lybster,
>>>Brabster, Nybster, and Sibster.)
>>
>>The local names like Lybster etc. derive from the Norse and the "STER"
>>ending to the name is Norse and means a dwelling place.
>>
>>
>>Should anyone else care to ask about name origins from some one actually
>>living in Scotland and with a fair knowledge  of actual Sinclair
>>history, I'd be happy to reply although I should stress that I don't
>>claim to be an historian like the excellent Jean Grisby/ies of this
>>world with whom, quite sadly, I have no contact whatsoever.
>>>
>>>For those of you who know what part of Scotland your ancestors come from,
>does
>>>this work out at all?  Jean Haddow, since you are in Scotland, do you
>notice any
>>>difference in the pronunciation between the northerners and the
>southerners?
>>>
>>>Just an idea I thought I'd pass on.
>>>
>>>Toni
>>>
>>>
>>>[ This is the Sinclair family discussion list, sinclair@jump.net.
>>>[ To get off or on the list, see http://www.mids.org/sinclair/list.html
>>
>>--
>>Jean Haddow
>>[ This is the Sinclair family discussion list, sinclair@jump.net.
>>[ To get off or on the list, see http://www.mids.org/sinclair/list.html
>>
>
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