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Re: Bruce and companions' bodies.
Subject: Re: Bruce and companions' bodies.
Yes, that makes sense that John could have been a squire. But your argument
for March needs to be looked at again. I have rearranged your sentences in
chronological order. Notice Bruce died in 1329 in Scotland. The battle of
Teba was the next year. Only Bruce's heart was at the Battle. It was
Douglas and 2 Sinclairs and the two Logans that died at Teba.
But I lean towards the August date because it seems impossible to sail
that far in only 12 days as explained in my other message.--But then, I made
so many typing errors, you probably can't read it. Sorry. Two phone calls
and a refrigerator repairman to blame plus hurrying too much to get through
the E-mails and out to stain the deck.
references the death of Bruce as occuring "at Cardross on 7 June
>He states that the Battle of Theba (Teba) occured on 25 August, 1330, and
>. If Bruce died in June (1329), then the battle certainly couldn't have
>taken place in March (1330). [your statement my ( )]
>Just a thought on Lena and Niven's write ups on this battle. There's
>actually no need to claim that John St Clair was the "unamed
>Knight". Niven never actually claims that. There were 26 other squires
>and gentlemen with them, and it's more than likely John was Sir William's
>squire, in which case he wouldn't have been named. It is commonly known
>and accepted that the two brothers were basically always together, and so
>it would be fairly natural to assume that they were together for this
>battle. As well, as Niven points out, there were the post mortem payments
>to the nephew, which if John had been alive, would have gone to him, as his
>nephews guardian (and his own by right). So I would think it's fairly safe
>to say that he was with his brother and did die at the Battle of Teba,
>without ever needing to lay claim to the "Unnamed Knight"
>Also, from "The Bloody Heart" by By Peter Drummond-Murray of Mastrick,
>Slains Pursuivant of Arms.
>Originally printed in The Double Tressure - Journal of the Heraldry Society
>of Scotland, Number 16, 1994
>The article in full can be found at
>http://www.cyberhighway.net/~cutter/cdsna/bloody.htm, complete with
>At 10:44 PM 09/08/99 -0500, you wrote:
>>Thus far we have the Battle of Teba occuring in three different months:
>>25 March 1330 (Laurel quoting Ronald McNair Scott)
>>8th September, 1330 (Niven)
>>25 August 1330 (Pete Cummings)
>>At least we all agree on the year....
>> >>Mediterranian and then up the coast to Scotland, it is obvious that in
>> >>warm climate these bodies couldn't be taken home as they were. So Sir
>> >>William Keith had the bodies prepared for the journey by having them
>> >>(in vinegar-from a Cadfael story) so that the flesh fell off. It was
>> >>the bones of the dead that went back to Scotland. The flesh was buried
>> >>holy ground in Spain. I wonder whether anyone has gone there to look
>> >>monument to them?
>>Teba (not Theba; there is no th in Spanish) has its own web pages:
>>They mention a memorial plaque. That battle was the biggest thing
>>that ever happened in Teba. :-)
>>As for Saladin,
>>yes, he was exceptional, but Muslims in general considered Christian
>>Europeans to be barely better than barbarians with no manners, and with
>>quite a bit of justification, given the behavior of the crusaders.
>>The Byzantines held a similar opinion, for similar reasons.
>>In any case, Laurel and Niven's writeups are now in
>>John S. Quarterman <firstname.lastname@example.org>
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