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Records are different from opinions. The primary source, the Bull itself, speaks for itself. You must give contemporary records a different weight that a précis based on those records deserves. A translation no matter the skill of the translator, lets the thoughts of the translator creep in. The Roman Government demanded Temple Tax not belief. Death was a radical way to collect taxes. Inland Revenue thankfully has not yet learned this technique. Philippe IV, le Bel, King of France pushed the Pope to the Council at Vienne. The King demanded judgement on the Knights Templars. The bishops refused to judge them without hearing the accused. The French Pope Clement V, pressured by his King decided "motu proprio"(by his own movement) the suppression if the Order, by the bull Vox in excelso. We desperately need the jury system to save us from the oppressions of a berserk executive. Guy Stair Sainty states "This rarely given distinction cannot strictly be characterized today as an Order of Knighthood, but more as an award of honor of the highest possible standing." This Order was last awarded in 1987. (Their) are no living Knights of the Papal Supreme Order of Christ..... The original foundation was actually a religious military Order under the rule of Saint Benedict, constituted in Portugal by King Denis I on 14 August 1318, confirmed and granted statutory regulation by the Bull Ad ea ex quibus ...The Order's endowment was established with the surviving estates of the recently dissolved Order of the Temple, just as in Spain most of these estates were used to establish the Order of Montesa." End Quote Sainty goes on to show how the order has evolved. He points out that the Pope and King can both awards the honour. It is arguable that this metamorphous may be no more fundamental than the transformation of Templars to Knights of Christ. Is transformation continuation? Sinclair ----- Original Message ----- From: "John S. Quarterman" <jsq@quarterman.org> To: <sinclair@quarterman.org> Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2002 4:06 AM Subject: Re: For Glen Cook, demise of the Templars???