I sent a request thru the Sinclair site and I guess it did not stick...Thanks for
helping me with this...D.
sinclair-digest wrote:
> sinclair-digest Friday, January 12 2001 Volume 02 : Number 374
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 16:21:43 +0000
> From: Niven Sinclair <niven@niven.co.uk>
> Subject: Re: Sinclair Dates
>
> At 02:05 11/01/01 -0600, you wrote:
>
> > [1]Tomorrow:
> > January 14
> >
> > In 1400: Richard II murdered, King of England murdered at Pontefract
> > Castle, Yorkshire. Source: The Oxford Companion to British History
> > 1997 Oxford also published in New York ISBN 0-19-866176-
>
> It was Richard II who gave his consent to Prince Henry Sinclair's visit
> to London in 1392 for the purpose of buying ships in the Pool of London.
>
> Richard had at first fulminated against idea because, as he put it in a
> letter to Queen Margetta of Norway, "Henry Sinclair's intolerable invasion
> of my Kingdom". This was a reference to the time when Henry Sinclair
> led a retaliatory force into England which reached as far as York. This
> was in retaliation against Richard's own invasion of Scotland in 1385
> when he burned Edinburgh.
>
> However, Queen Margretta eventually won the day (as she invariably did)
> and Henry was given permission to travel to London with 34 men -
> presumably to crew the ships which, we believe, were eventually
> sailed to Bergen to replace the Norwegian ships which had been
> destroyed by the Hanseatic League - a league of German Merchants
> who wished to control the growing trade in the North Sea which they
> referred to as Oceanus Germanicus.
>
> The reason for Richard's murder was never established but, in my
> opinion, it was because he changed his stance. Previously, he had
> allowed the Hansa to have bases along the Eastern seaboard of England.
> Queen Margretta won him over - hence the three ships from England
> to Norway (probably the first instance of "Lend/Lease" as was practised
> by Roosevelt to assist Britain before America's own involvement in
> World War II).
>
> Richard was replaced by his cousin, Henry IV, John of Gaunt' son.
> It was during the reign of this King that Prince James (afterwards
> King James I) was captured with Henry Sinclair II whilst he, Henry,
> was taking the Crown Prince to France for safe-keeping. James
> was detained in England for 18 years during which time he received
> an excellent education and military experience because he took
> part in some of Henry V's French campaigns. Obviously, his
> 'imprisonment' wasn't of the kind which we normally associate
> with the Tower of London. Eventually James returned to Scotland
> to be crowned in 1424.
>
> Henry was also imprisoned but, on condition that one of his brothers
> or one of the Douglases reported to Durham Castle as 'hostages',
> Henry was allowed frequent visits to Scotland. Eventually he was
> released and acted as one of three of Scotland's Counsellors until
> James's own return to Scotland.
>
> Those were the days of chivalry.
>
> Niven Sinclair
>
> >References
> >
> > 1. http://www.mids.org/sinclair/timeline.html
> >[ This is the Sinclair family discussion list, sinclair@mids.org
> >[ To get off or on the list, see http://www.mids.org/sinclair/list.html
>
> [ This is the Sinclair family discussion list, sinclair@mids.org
> [ To get off or on the list, see http://www.mids.org/sinclair/list.html
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: 11 Jan 2001 11:29:33 -0800
> From: "Spirit One Email" <laurel@spiritone.com>
> Subject: Crown Prince James
>
> Dear Niven,
> Hurray! I had come to the same conclusion that the Prince's imprisonment
> was not so grim but my source was a little strange.
> In "Young Folks' History of England" by Charlotte M. Yonge 1879, it says:
> That England's Prince of Wales, Henry, s/o King Henry IV, had joined the
> Welsh in an attack on England but were defeated (much longer story here).
> The Prince fought very well and was well liked by all the people. Henry IV
> had many enemies and insurrections to deal with so he never knew whom to
> trust. One friend after another turned against him and he became soured and
> wretched: He was worn out with disappointment and guarding against everyone
> and suspicious of his brave son Prince Henry because he was so bright and
> bold and loved.
>
> "The Prince was ordered home from Wales, and obliged to live at Windsor,
> with nothing to do, while his youngest brothers were put before him and
> trusted by their father--one even commanded the army in France. But happily
> the 4 brothers--Henry, Thomas, John and Humfrey--all loved each other so
> well that nothing could make them jealous or at enmity with one another.
> Edmund Mortimer, whom the Welsh had tried to make king, was kept at
> Windsor also. The young Prince of Scotland, whom an English ship had caught
> as he was sailing for France to be educated was there too. It was very
> dishonorable of the king to have taken him; but he was brought up with the
> young English princes, and they all led a happy life together.
> These are stories told of Henry--Prince Hal, as he was called--leading a
> wild, merry life, as a sort of madcap; playing at being a robber, and
> breaking into the wagons that were bringing treasure for his father and then
> giving the money back again. " --No details on Henry IV's death.
>
> Now this book is certainly from an English point of view and full of
> propaganda for the English children. And at first I viewed this story that
> way but the Scots had their own reasons for painting the English as monsters
> that kept the Scottish Prince in a dank prison for years so that they could
> whip up sympathy for their cause.
> Through the centuries it has been to the advantage of a neighboring
> country giving refuge to an exile (Malcolm Canmore in England; Edward the
> Exile in Kiev; Prince Henri I of France with Duke Robert; Duke Richard I of
> Normandy with King Hugh Capet of France, etc.) to do all they could to treat
> them well and not create a belligerent rebel to return to their country to
> attack them. No they wanted to mold this exile, or in this case prisoner,
> into an friend or possibly almost Englishman. Also if you let him run
> around not learning responsibility and growing up soft, he will be easily
> controlled when he returns to his country. Then English were not doing this
> out of kindness but hard-headed good business of kingdom management.
>
> Meanwhile the king of Scotland died and his brother, uncle Robert Stuart,
> Duke of Albany refused to pay his nephew's ransom and ruled Scotland himself
> from 1406 until his death 1420. His son was too weak to rule and finally
> agreed to pay for James' release. Prince/King James was now 30 years old
> and returned home in 1426 where he found a lawless land oppressed by the
> strong nobles who fought for power and land amongst themselves. The only
> law in the Highlands was that of the Chiefs.
> Then as King James II, he introduced several English type things that he
> must have admired while in England (hate to be vague but can't find my notes
> on this). If he had been mistreated, he wouldn't have been so quick to
> adopt these enemy measures.
> Laurel
> ===================
>
> rd was replaced by his cousin, Henry IV, John of Gaunt' son.
> > It was during the reign of this King that Prince James (afterwards
> > King James I) was captured with Henry Sinclair II whilst he, Henry,
> > was taking the Crown Prince to France for safe-keeping. James
> > was detained in England for 18 years during which time he received
> > an excellent education and military experience because he took
> > part in some of Henry V's French campaigns. Obviously, his
> > 'imprisonment' wasn't of the kind which we normally associate
> > with the Tower of London. Eventually James returned to Scotland
> > to be crowned in 1424.
> >
> > Henry was also imprisoned but, on condition that one of his brothers
> > or one of the Douglases reported to Durham Castle as 'hostages',
> > Henry was allowed frequent visits to Scotland. Eventually he was
> > released and acted as one of three of Scotland's Counsellors until
> > James's own return to Scotland.
> >
> > Those were the days of chivalry.
> >
> > Niven Sinclair
> >
> >
> > >
>
> [ This is the Sinclair family discussion list, sinclair@mids.org
> [ To get off or on the list, see http://www.mids.org/sinclair/list.html
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 08:25:46 +1100
> From: Jean Stokes <sinead@milamba.com>
> Subject: Re: Three Wise Men
>
> Dear Niven
> My PC has been dead or dying for about a week otherwise I would entered a
> gentle complaint to you Coz.
> As far as we know, for life to continue there are two genders needed. Male
> and female. So why claim any greater virtue or failing for either. A tango
> does not look as good danced alone.
> On the personal scene, all went well and mood is positive. Thankyou.
>
> Sinead.
> At 06:55 PM 9/01/01 -0400, you wrote:
> >Notice:
> >
> >The Sinclair men have engaged in a war of words (clever though they may be).
> >The Sinclair women :-)
> >
> >Peace,
> >Toni
> >
> >Margaret Stokes wrote:
> >
> > > >On the contrary, Armageddon would have ensued.
> > > >
> > > >We deceive ourselves if we perceive women as being peacemakers.
> > > >
> > > >Niven Sinclair
> > >
> > > Now Niven I hardly think that's fair! Men and women have it fairly equal
> > > in the troublemaking department. Although on the home front women are far
> > > more often the peacemakers and forced to protect children from men's
> > > aggressiveness than the reverse.
> > >
> > > Basically you deceive yourself if you view ANY one group as the
> > > personification of any particular quality, be it peacemaking, warmongering
> > > or otherwise.
> > >
> > > Milamba.
> > >
> > > [ This is the Sinclair family discussion list, sinclair@mids.org
> > > [ To get off or on the list, see http://www.mids.org/sinclair/list.html
> >
> >
> >
> >[ This is the Sinclair family discussion list, sinclair@mids.org
> >[ To get off or on the list, see http://www.mids.org/sinclair/list.html
>
> [ This is the Sinclair family discussion list, sinclair@mids.org
> [ To get off or on the list, see http://www.mids.org/sinclair/list.html
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 16:47:45 -0700
> From: Don Sinclair <donsinc@home.com>
> Subject: Re: Three Wise Men
>
> Sinead,
>
> Well stated! Care to Tango?
>
> Donald Sinclair
> St. Albert, Alberta, Canada
>
> Jean Stokes wrote:
> >
> > Dear Niven
> > My PC has been dead or dying for about a week otherwise I would entered a
> > gentle complaint to you Coz.
> > As far as we know, for life to continue there are two genders needed. Male
> > and female. So why claim any greater virtue or failing for either. A tango
> > does not look as good danced alone.
> > On the personal scene, all went well and mood is positive. Thankyou.
> >
> > Sinead.
> > At 06:55 PM 9/01/01 -0400, you wrote:
> > >Notice:
> > >
> > >The Sinclair men have engaged in a war of words (clever though they may be).
> > >The Sinclair women :-)
> > >
> > >Peace,
> > >Toni
> > >
> > >Margaret Stokes wrote:
> > >
> > > > >On the contrary, Armageddon would have ensued.
> > > > >
> > > > >We deceive ourselves if we perceive women as being peacemakers.
> > > > >
> > > > >Niven Sinclair
> > > >
> > > > Now Niven I hardly think that's fair! Men and women have it fairly equal
> > > > in the troublemaking department. Although on the home front women are far
> > > > more often the peacemakers and forced to protect children from men's
> > > > aggressiveness than the reverse.
> > > >
> > > > Basically you deceive yourself if you view ANY one group as the
> > > > personification of any particular quality, be it peacemaking, warmongering
> > > > or otherwise.
> > > >
> > > > Milamba.
> > > >
> > > > [ This is the Sinclair family discussion list, sinclair@mids.org
> > > > [ To get off or on the list, see http://www.mids.org/sinclair/list.html
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >[ This is the Sinclair family discussion list, sinclair@mids.org
> > >[ To get off or on the list, see http://www.mids.org/sinclair/list.html
> >
> > [ This is the Sinclair family discussion list, sinclair@mids.org
> > [ To get off or on the list, see http://www.mids.org/sinclair/list.html
> [ This is the Sinclair family discussion list, sinclair@mids.org
> [ To get off or on the list, see http://www.mids.org/sinclair/list.html
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: 11 Jan 2001 16:30:08 -0800
> From: "Spirit One Email" <laurel@spiritone.com>
> Subject: Tango
>
> Ahhh the Tango. I love to dance it.
> Laurel
>
> - ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Don Sinclair" <donsinc@home.com>
> To: <sinclair@matrix.net>
> Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2001 3:47 PM
> Subject: Re: Three Wise Men
>
> > Sinead,
> >
> > Well stated! Care to Tango?
> >
> > Donald Sinclair
> > St. Albert, Alberta, Canada
> >
> >
>
> [ This is the Sinclair family discussion list, sinclair@mids.org
> [ To get off or on the list, see http://www.mids.org/sinclair/list.html
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 00:46:18 +0000
> From: Iain Laird <Iain.Laird@btinternet.com>
> Subject: Re: Tango
>
> A curious fact - the Tango was first danced in Argentina only by men with
> each other. It has improved since then!
>
> Iain Laird (in Rio de Janeiro!)
>
> At 16:30 11/01/2001 -0800, you wrote:
> >Ahhh the Tango. I love to dance it.
> >Laurel
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Don Sinclair" <donsinc@home.com>
> >To: <sinclair@matrix.net>
> >Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2001 3:47 PM
> >Subject: Re: Three Wise Men
> >
> >
> > > Sinead,
> > >
> > > Well stated! Care to Tango?
> > >
> > > Donald Sinclair
> > > St. Albert, Alberta, Canada
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >[ This is the Sinclair family discussion list, sinclair@mids.org
> >[ To get off or on the list, see http://www.mids.org/sinclair/list.html
>
> [ This is the Sinclair family discussion list, sinclair@mids.org
> [ To get off or on the list, see http://www.mids.org/sinclair/list.html
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: 11 Jan 2001 18:02:33 -0800
> From: "Spirit One Email" <laurel@spiritone.com>
> Subject: Scottish Banner articles
>
> Things of interest perhaps in the January Scottish Banner
>
> Movement underway to publicize Robert Burns and make him as popular as
> Shakespeare. Also don't forget that if you live in a large city, there
> might be a Robert Burns Night/dinner on January 25th or that weekend.
> Contact someone and go. Usually Haggis and dancing.
>
> Article about Prince Henry Sinclair by Susan M. Sinclair Green Grady,
> Virginia.
>
> A very detailed description to make Haggis.
> "A Douglas Testament" by Nigel Tranter. Long article that keys in on the
> will of Sir James Douglas of Dalkeith and Morton, nephew and heir of Sir
> William Douglas, the famus Knight of Liddesdale. This will gives evidence
> that the people of 1390 indeed possessed considerable libraries.
>
> Life in Scotland under George II-1727+
> Small article on Madona's wedding at Dornoch.
>
> History of Doves, Dovecotes in Scotland
> What is the rest of the story about Robert, 22 year old son of Patrick ,
> Earl of Orkney who was executed in 1615 after defending kirkwall castle
> against the government troops?
>
> Witch hunting resumed in 1662 when Charles II took the throne. That day 13
> accussed were detained.
>
> Laurel
>
> [ This is the Sinclair family discussion list, sinclair@mids.org
> [ To get off or on the list, see http://www.mids.org/sinclair/list.html
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: 11 Jan 2001 17:32:24 -0800
> From: "Spirit One Email" <laurel@spiritone.com>
> Subject: New on Clan History web
>
> New things on www.clansinclairusa.org click on History
>
> Picture a info a young lady named with the first name of Sinclair and a
> young lady with the last name of Sinclair. click on Children's page
>
> Additions to WWI for Scotland, Australia and Canada and USA Cavalry with
> links to a story in "Voices from the Past" about this Canadian/USA family
> click on "Combat 1812-2000"
> Some trivia under "Trivia"
> Laurel
>
> [ This is the Sinclair family discussion list, sinclair@mids.org
> [ To get off or on the list, see http://www.mids.org/sinclair/list.html
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 21:36:17 -0500
> From: "Jeff Inkster" <cheryl.jeff@sympatico.ca>
> Subject: Interesting picture
>
> Hi all,
> Hope everyone had a great Christmas and a Happy New Year. :)
>
> Spirit One:
> I did email Gordon back in November but never did hear anything back...(or
> maybe I lost the email?).
> I'll try again...
>
> Now the picture.
> I found this link in another NG listing that I belong to (an Orkney
> rootsweb list). I'll cut and paste it for you.
>
> --- cut ---
> I'm hoping that someone will recognize the style or type of dress that
> appears in an old b&w family photograph. Is it military related? Is
> the tartan identifiable? I am quite sure the person in the photo has
> ties to Orkney or Caithness. The photo probably dates to roughly
> 1860-70 judging by the furniture. The man may be Angus Sinclair, about
> whom I literally know nothing except that he was "a soldier" (so says
> his son's civil registration marriage certificate) and that his son
> Peter was living in Washington, Durham, Eng. (he was a slag man at a
> blast furnace) when he married in 1874. The marriage took place in
> Edinburgh to a woman who was living in Dunnet, Caithness, at the time.
> How that came about is still a mystery to me! The couple settled first
> in Dunnet, then Kirkwall. The son was born about 1852, so he could also
> be the man in the photo. Angus is referred to as deceased on the
> marriage certificate.
> Any help would be greatly appreciated! Here's the link:
> http://pws.prserv.net/usinet.declair/pcsinweb.jpg
>
> Doug Sinclair
> --- paste ---
>
> I'm not really sure if Doug is a member here or not, if you are Doug...sorry
> for the X-Post!
>
> Take care,
>
> Jeff Inkster
> Toronto, ON, Canada
>
> [ This is the Sinclair family discussion list, sinclair@mids.org
> [ To get off or on the list, see http://www.mids.org/sinclair/list.html
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of sinclair-digest V2 #374
> ******************************
[ This is the Sinclair family discussion list, sinclair@mids.org
[ To get off or on the list, see http://www.mids.org/sinclair/list.html