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Can we all please remember Kathryn Kurtz' complaint and not quote huge reams of previous messages, please. An archive of back messages is updated nightly in http://www.mids.org/sinclair/ so anybody can follow the back conversation without it having to be constantly requoted in full on the list. Quoting a few lines for context is good. Quoting pages and pages is not. In addition, please note that "off list" usually means just what it says: a communication off the list, i.e., private. It is polite when someone sends a message prefaced by "off list" not to send it to the list. Regarding Scrygmeour, a google search finds http://www.electricscotland.com/webclans/stoz/scrymge2.html It says, in part: ``This name is derived from Old French via the Middle English "skrymsher" or "skirmisour" meaning a fencer. The family traces its lineage back to Aodh O'Neill, King of the North of Ireland in the 11th century. The first recording of the name in Scottish records occurs in 1293 when "Alexander called Schyrmeshur" was granted a track of lands. In 1298 two documents issued on behalf of the crown by Sir William Wallace, Guardian of the Kingdom, confirmed on the same Alexander Schyrmeschur the honourable, but highly dangerous, privilege of bearing the King's banner in war, along with the hereditary office of Constable of the Castle of Dundee, and certain lands in the Dundee area named Upper Dudhope.'' There is a Clan Scrymgeour Association, whose web pages are found via: http://www.tartans.com/clans/Scrimgeour/society/society.html John S. Quarterman <jsq@matrix.net> [ This is the Sinclair family discussion list, sinclair@mids.org [ To get off or on the list, see http://www.mids.org/sinclair/list.html