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Hi Andrew ---- First , I do applaud the effort to expand the LIST discussions to include more data on the French and English ( incl. Welsh ) Sinclairs ( all spellings ) ! Having said that , I hasten to say that I do not mean to imply that I seek less discussion of the Scottish , Australian , etc . branches of the family . I would also suggest that we of Sinclair ancestry are a clan , despite your assertion !! e.g. clan --(1) "a group of families .... claiming a common ancestor . (2) a large group of relatives or associates ".THE AMERICAN HERITAGE DICTIONARY 1983 INDEED , IT COULD BE ASSERTED THAT WE LIST MEMBERS ARE A CLAN , BY VIRTUE OF OUR ASSOCIATION ?? e.g.clan -- (1)"clanship was thereby essentially defined as a product of local association , kinship and feudalism ....... the emergence of the clan less to do with ethnicity than with political turmoil and social opportunity . In the Highlands, however, clanship had an added cultural association with the Gaelic language ." COLLINS ... CLANS AND TARTANS 1995 I suspect that the preceding will provoke some spirited discussion ?? Incidentally , for all the " cousins " out there , when I studied Folklore as a sideline at the University many years ago , I was amazed at the infomation that could be derived from families " Oral Traditions " , manner of dress , religious celebrations , method of building a farm fence , house , barn , etc. as clues to origin , both geographically , socially , ethnically , etc. What I am saying , is that an open mind may perceive some very valuable clues to ones ancestor's origins from the varied topics discussed from time to time in this list ! regards to all . joe greigg [ This is the Sinclair family discussion list, sinclair@jump.net. [ To get off or on the list, see http://www.mids.org/sinclair/list.html