Re: NOBLE TITLES

["Privateers" <Privateers@privateers.org>]

The Act of Union requires that there alway be 16 Peers from Scotland the
present goverment of the United Kingdom seem to forget that in a mad rush to
constitunal change maybe we should chane the goverment instead

Sinclair
----- Original Message -----
From: <Plumpett@aol.com>
To: <sinclair@jump.net>
Sent: Sunday, June 27, 1999 3:17 AM
Subject: NOBLE TITLES


>
> John Q. and Laurel ---
>
> I can help a little with your question #2 ; You wrote ::
>
> 2.  If the Sinclairs were so important to Malcolm and Margaret , why
didn't
> William the Seemly get a  better title than just "baron"?  Question for
FAQ
> ???
>
> The answer may lie in a better understanding of the titles themselves ----
> focus on the thought you expressed of ""better title than just "baron " ""
.
>
> First , the older titles did not have the plurality common to latter times
!
> That is to say , the oldest , most relevant titles were Baron and Earl .
> Other titles were
> " invented " much later  i.e.   Duke , Marquess, Viscount , etc. !!!
>
> However , these later " inventions " were not indicative of more real
power
> and that perhaps helps explain why there were often multiple titles held
by
> an individual ; that is to say the lands , castles , powers and
priviledges
> were incumbent in the " older " titles .
>
> A grant usually was of TITLE which was accompanied by LAND , POWERS ,
> PRIVILEDGES , RIGHTS ,  DUTIES , etc.
>
> And yes , before anyone is confused , I am purposely NOT addressing
WARLORD ,
> KING , HIGH KING , MORMAEIR , etc . .
>
> Thus , you may find , that at the time period you are looking at for
William
> the Seemly, the title of Baron was no small thing -- even later , it was
the
> BARONS who forced the King to outline their " POWERS " in writing , in the
> MAGNA CARTA -- this document was not the rights of the lower or the middle
> class but rather those rights of the great landowners , the BARONS !!!
>
> For an example . look at Prince Henry -- Knight , Baron of Roslin , Jarl

> EARL ) of Orkney , etc. The lands , castles , etc, were separate items .
>
> Perhaps a better example was ROLLO -- he was " COUNT OF ROUEN " and that
was
> a sufficient title to indicate his great power and vast LANDHOLDINGS .
>
> MISC"L data --
>
> (1) " Until the reign of Edward the III , the   Peerage consisted only of
> high
>        ecclesiastics , earls and barons .  The EARLS WERE BARONS .... and
> their
>        names always appear on the rolls before those of the barons ."
>
> ( 2) "Today there exists no Scottish dukedom , marquessate or viscounty
> .....created
>        before the reign of  James the VI . of Scotland . .....There are
now
> only 87
>       Scottish Peerages in all -- 63 were created after James accession ".
>
> As you can see , when he was created a " Baron " , William joined a very
> small and very exclusive group !!!
>
> Laurel , I provided most of the preceding from memory but I am sure of its
> accuracy -- I will be glad to look up sources to sustantiate everything or
> allow anyone to expand the detail , but I didn't want the letter to become
> too long or to obscure the relevant facts. .
>
> Regards to all
>
> JOE G.
>
>
>
>
>
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