Re: Blow the Trumpet loudly. Louder

>
> >Flanders and Picardy were never part of the Norman domain they were
> >Burgandian, Hapsburg and Frankish where would William get Flemish troops?
> >
> >Douglas is a well known name the Black Douglases in 1449 and his band of
> >tratiors stain the pages of Scots history the King James II had to almost
> >elimate them to regain the Kingdom. James Douglas the Earl of Morton wared
> >aginst the crown until 1572 in civil war. King James V in his minority was
> >held under duress by Archibald Douglas. They are many other instances of the
> >pages of history being smeared with Douglas treachery.
>
> Douglas was a Galloway family. Malcolm III was the first King of Scots
> to make Galloway more or less part of the kingdom. Galloway was the wild
> west of Scotland in the times of Malcolm III, David I, and up through those
> of Robert the Bruce. The Black Douglas was best known for raiding the north
> of England, which caused mothers to teach their children a rhyme about
> behaving or the Black Douglas would get you.

Douglas is best know as a traitor see History of the Western Highlands and Isle D. Gergory Edinburgh 1881 2 edition The Scottish Highlands a Short History, c300-1746 D. Mitchell Edinburgh 1957
>
> One reason for the Bruce family being granted land in Annandale was to help
> contain the wild lands of Galloway. However, as everyone knows Sir James
> Douglas was one of the Bruce's main lieutenants (see Barbour's Brus,
> http://www.arts.gla.ac.uk/www/english/comet/starn/poetry/brus/contents.htm
> A poets view not History
> ), and in the famous incident of
> the attempt to carry Bruce's heart to the Holy Land it was Sir James Douglas,
> Sir Robert Logan and Sir William Keith who fought at Teba with William and
> John Sinclair.
>
> As for the origin of the Douglas name, in what I quoted previously I was
> quoting from scotclans, as I said; I know nothing more about it than that.
> See:
> http://www.scotclans.com/clans/douglas.htm
> See also:
> http://www.chebucto.ns.ca/Heritage/FSCNS/Scots_NS/Clans/Douglas.html
>

Failing to win the day as Oliver at Solway Moss did is a hell of a lot different than being a tratior
>
> There was one good Douglas poet, though. Was there ever a Sinclair poet? :-)
>
> Somewhat more seriously, if we want the Sinclair story to be told, maybe
> that's what we need; a few Sinclair poets. I don't mean in verse, I mean
> a few good storytellers with some well-honed stories to tell. Pete Cummings
> may have been such a one, with his tight focus on Prince Henry Sinclair.
> There seems to be interest now in the even wider 1200 year history
> of the Sinclair family. Who will distill that story?
>
> Refined and carefully-researched versions are good. As I said recently,
> a true story is usually even better than a trite story.
>
> However, please don't expect this list to be where you find the distilled
> story and only that. As Laurel has put it, in the list we try to stir up
> information. This is a discussion list; it will be confusing at times,
> and it is *supposed* to have many people going in different directions.
> Here we mine the ore and mount some expeditions. In the paper newsletters
> I would hope to see some refined metal and maybe even some well-wrought
> trumpets for playing fine tunes about the results of these and other
> expeditions. No doubt there will be more books, as well. Not to mention
> presentations at games, and videos, and television, and of course many
> web pages.
>
> I don't agree about too many people, however. Many hands make light work.
> We have 1200 years of story to tell; that's almost 50 generations, and
> across much of Europe and the rest of the world. That's a lot of stories
> within the story to tell, and they will need a lot of story tellers.
> The more the merrier.
>
> In addition to the fine tunes and well-told stories for the public, there
> are also plenty of veins of ore that need careful sifting and academic
> discussion. There is probably a Ph.D. thesis for somebody in the Argyll
> work that Rory and Juli and Karen have started, for example.
>
> Concerning the web pages,
> http://www.mids.org/sinclair/
> I think I will put up some disclaimers that most of what you see there
> is work in progress, not the final word, and if you want to see how it
> comes out, you should join the list and join a clan organization.
>
> And as for only recent environment or recent heredity determining who
> you are, I don't think that is all there is to it. My experience with
> genealogy thus far (see, for example, www.quarterman.org) is that like
> people tend to group together across generations. Your remote ancestors
> may very well be more like you than your neighbors.
>
> And it's not entirely a matter of relation, either. Ancestry provides
> a thread with which to follow the course of history. Malcolm Canmore
> was just another historical figure to me until I realized that he was
> *the* King of Scots who first established the Sinclairs in Scotland.
> Similarly, I knew who Margaret was, more or less, but she became a lot
> more interesting when I realized that William the Seemly was associated
> with her. Personally, I'm always looking for traces of another Norman
> family, and the more I know about the early Normans, the more likely
> I will find them.
>
> Why examine history at all? Well, I can tell you that in my present
> occupation I do take heart from the story of Bruce and the spider.
> And the battle of Roslin as an example of use of the materials at hand
> and just-in-time reinforcement is also quite instructive.
>
> So I suggest that the Sinclair clan organizations mine the copious
> ore that is being turned up in the chaotic discussions on this list
> and elsewhere, and produce some fine trumpets and well-told tales for
> presentation to the rest of the world. Many willing hands and voices
> have been raised here in the list. The clan organizations have already
> called on some of them, and there are others still raised.
>
> John S. Quarterman <jsq@mids.org>
> PS: I have no Douglas relations, as far as I know. I do have Flemish
> ancestors, through a much different route.
> [ This is the Sinclair family discussion list, sinclair@jump.net.
> [ To get off or on the list, see http://www.mids.org/sinclair/list.html